Disable autosave

wow - you're here just because of me? I'm impressed.And I intend to address you personally as often as I like. Really personally. Are you related to Yvan Koenig?

Don't be paranoiac.

I'm tired to read your odd messages so I decided to no longer write here but this late message is too much.

I agree with some users which wrote that Lion is improving with every update but I'm not related to them.

When I want to tell something, I never use a medium and I don't hide myself behind a pseudo.

I sign with my true name.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 23 janvier 2011 10:53:50

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

mulligans missus wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

I've been wondering about you since your sudden recent appearance in these forums, and your passion for instantly rebutting every comment that's critical of Lion's functionality. Why do you do it? I'd like to know.

Because the only answer you are intelligent enough of giving is "I moved back to Snow Leopard, because I have a list of all the problems.That will fix everybody's problems." This is most unhelpful and very annoying when reading through threads trying to solve people's issues with 'Lion' which this thread is about.

Let's be fair about this. If Auto Save/Versions is a deal-breaker for a given user, then reverting to Snow Leopard will solve that user's issues. Furthermore, as we've seen, it is the ONLY solution available for solving those issues. I don't believe Tom has stated that reverting to Snow Leopard is the solution for every issue with Lion — only this one.

You make people feel that Lion is unusable, whereas most people who volunteer their time are helpful and many issues have been resolved, including mine

However, the issue that is the subject of this thread has NOT been resolved. It stands to reason that there will be continued discussion of this issue until such time as it is. Meanwhile, I find it hard to believe that someone would reach the conclusion that "Lion is unusable" based solely on one person's posts.

…if you read my posts, about three or four up for example, I am agreeing with the poster. Lion is not perfect but is improving every update.

Yes, I noted that you agree that the user should be given a choice as to whether or not to use Auto Save/Versioning, and I'm happy to see this.

With one simple stroke, Apple could render all 46 pages of this discussion — not to mention similar discussions in other threads and in many other forums across the web — moot.

It's absolutely the right thing to do, and in all of this discussion in all of these venues, not a single soul has given a credible reason why it is not. In fact, they haven't come close. Time and again, the Apple apologists who smugly deride the rest of us for being "behind the times" (without having a clue as to the nature of our workflows) suddenly scurry away and hide beneath their rocks whenever this simple point is made.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

When I want to tell something, I never use a medium and I don't hide myself behind a pseudo.

I sign with my true name.

Well, Yvan, I'm glad that your practice gives you that little thrill of superiority I know is so important to you.

But using your true name is a personal choice, just as it's a personal choice for the next person not to use his/her true name.

If you imagine that your choice somehow gives your views more credibility, you're talking through your hat — which as we've seen is nothing new for you.

If you imagine that your choice somehow gives your views more credibility, you're talking through your hat — which as we've seen is nothing new for you.

I agree, online anonymity will be a human right very soon, and perhaps even recognized by the UN.Not so off topic considering that one of the most vocal objections to autosave are about privacy. Anyone concerned about privacy would be better off with a pseudonym.

Funny how those who apparently do not understand how to evaluate software, are trying to make it as somebody's preferences issue, when actually we are dealing with design failure.

- If we have a pdf viewer (which Preview is) which damages PDF (!!) files while performing simple viewing actions (like rotating), that is a fail.

- If we have an editor (which Preview kind of is) which will auto-save a large file for 2 minutes, then allow to work 3 minutes, then auto-save again (being unresponsive during this operation!!) and so on, this is a fail.

Enough to conclude that decisions have been made by people who shouldn't be making such decisions, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with personal preferences, or willingness to accept somehting new.

I am not even talking about the fact that make a selection in complex pdf file and Preview becomes so unresponsive (with 100% usage of one CPU core!) that opening a menu item will take like 20 seconds or more (!!).. now go talk about most advanced.

automatically save

all the mistakes we made

all the errors you slaved

over never repeating

never redeeming

never seeing

ever again

Why?

Let's be fair about this. If Auto Save/Versions is a deal-breaker for a given user, then reverting to Snow Leopard will solve that user's issues. Furthermore, as we've seen, it is the ONLY solution available for solving those issues. I don't believe Tom has stated that reverting to Snow Leopard is the solution for every issue with Lion — only this one.

Our office went back to Snow Leopard for many reasons, Auto Save/Versions was only one of them.

We viewed Versions as a security risk.

Dick Todd wrote:

automatically save

all the mistakes we made

all the errors you slaved

over never repeating

never redeeming

never seeing

ever again

Why?

Looks like a Depeche Mode song. We could name it "Apple, never let me down again"

Ziatron wrote:

----

"Our office went back to Snow Leopard for many reasons, Auto Save/Versions was only one of them. We viewed Versions as a security risk."

----

- Going back to a former version is not a permanent solution, because new versions are necessary in order to support new hardware.

- What is then needed, is improvements and more configurability. Yes, more, not less, configurability. To assume that the user is better served by fewer options, is simply wrong thinking. Versions should be optional, and the same with Autosave. I absolutely do not want former versions to be saved unless specifically wanted. Autosave is not necessarily bad, but what is wrong with giving the user the choice between Autosave and Save As?

I view the Lion discussion as a discussion about philosophy. Who knows best what is best for the user, a single company or the user who works with the computer? The answer should be fairly obvious.

- Who has decided that the user should not have many options, and on what criteria is this idea based?

- The user should also be able to change many details in the user interface. Small and almost invisible scrollbars may be necessary on a telephone, but become plain dysfunctional on a computer with a large screen where one works with large documents. An iPhone or an iPad is something different from a computer where big documents and long texts are regularly worked with. The user interface on a computer should not resemble that of a phone! And a dull, uniform grey color incapable of being changed is not a good idea either. Everyone who is trained in the principles of visibility and understands the importance of visual clues, knows that different colors and sizes on visual elements are functional and desirable.

Ziatron wrote:

Let's be fair about this. If Auto Save/Versions is a deal-breaker for a given user, then reverting to Snow Leopard will solve that user's issues. Furthermore, as we've seen, it is the ONLY solution available for solving those issues. I don't believe Tom has stated that reverting to Snow Leopard is the solution for every issue with Lion — only this one.

Our office went back to Snow Leopard for many reasons, Auto Save/Versions was only one of them.

We viewed Versions as a security risk.

While it's true that many features of Lion have not been developed enough (ie: Mission Control is less powerful than Expose, and Launchpad duplicates functionality already present in Stacks, which suggests that the Stacks functionality should have been enhanced instead of introducing a new tool that duplicates features), most of such issues come from the fact that it's hard to develop a touch OS (like iOS) for non-touch devices (like all Macs, laptops included).

However, all that is a concept problem with minor consequences on the user.

OTOH, autosave and versions do have severe consequences on the user.

I don't see SL an option because I'll need new hardware in the future.

But I see Ubuntu as an option, because all my software runs there, and I've already been a Unix user for decades.

Sad because I want OSX. But if Apple trashes OSX, I'll go away, obviously.

Other OS'es are a little off topic in a Mac forum, but I touch it briefly.

cesarpixel wrote:

----

"But I see Ubuntu as an option, because all my software runs there, and I've already been a Unix user for decades. Sad because I want OSX. But if Apple trashes OSX, I'll go away, obviously."

----

- Ubuntu and GNOME based versions are not as functional as Kubuntu and other Linux flavors based on KDE. KDE is far far superior to the minimalistic and less configurable GNOME. KDE is excellently functional in all respects, so if anyone wants Linux either alone or alongside Mac computers KDE is strongly recommended.

Yes, it's offtopic indeed, but I come from the commercial Unix workstations user base, and I was quite happy with their desktop at that time (note that the NeXT UI came as an evolution or re-thinking of that scenario). Because of that, I never _never_ liked gnome nor kde, because they were into introducing Windows-like UI styles into XWindow.

Currently Ubuntu no longer uses gnome, but unity, a new desktop they've developed. It's clearly a depart from older Windows-like concepts, and I believe I might like it.

However, I prefer OSX. I want to keep OSX as my main machine. It's up to Apple to make it possible, or to force me to move to another OS. Period.

Please, let me disable autosave+versions, because it doesn't let me work properly.

Apple has to change this auto save behavior. It's impossible to really work that way. If you have an archive of your photos and you jus want to check some changes in Preview you loose your original. If you protect it you cannot check you changes because of the message window. To duplicate and delete afterwards - impossible. There has to be a switch for every app whether it should auto save or not. Very easy.

RicksonQ wrote:

- Going back to a former version is not a permanent solution, because new versions are necessary in order to support new hardware.

It may not be a permanent solution, but it may very well be the best solution for right now. It certainly is for me. When I need to buy a new computer I will consider then whether Apple's current OS will or won't work for me. Right now it's still a viable choice between Lion and SL, and SL wins that for me hands down.

- Who has decided that the user should not have many options, and on what criteria is this idea based?

- The user should also be able to change many details in the user interface.

Apple has always walked a fine line between providing considerable user configurability and providing a simple, streamlined interface with few options getting in the way. Look at a program like GraphicConverter with its menus full of options. Great for the experienced user who knows what he's doing with images, but overwhelming for the novice.

Apple has always erred on the side of simplicity, sacrificing user configurability for it. IMO they have always got the balance about right, until Lion. The lack of configurability of Lion is keeping me on Snow Leopard. We'll see if they repent in a future OS release.