Q: Disable autosave

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

I was perfectly serious and continue to be.

...

In that case, could you please answer few questions:

1.) Preview is a viewer (or, that is what I think, judging the name). Opening a file and rotating it (just to view it more conveniently) will modify it. In SL, you could simply click "no" to the save request. Now, there is no save prompt and file is modified automatically. Are people who designed it ok? Is there any meaning in this behaviour? If yes, what exactly? Even first versions of Acrobat had different commands for rotation for viewing and rotation as editing.

2.) Files are different. Autocad drawings printed in pdf contain huge number of elements. If you want to edit a pdf with set of such files, Preview will freeze for at least few minutes at every attempt to save a version (especially if file is on the server). At close, Preview will "notify" that it file is on the volume that could not permanently store versions. So, all this "saving of versions" was just to annoy me and punish for choosing Mac, right?

3.) I somehow had HP printer which was displaying a red warning LED every time it was warming up. I was really annoyed to jump up just to discover that printer is not out of paper but just warming up. I was sure this printer is made by idiots, because it was requesting my attention when there was actually no need for that.

Now, when Preview decides to save a version (which will take some 3-4 minutes, see above) and I am doing something else, it shows jumping Dock icon, as if there is some emergency. Same thing? Are people who made it like that OK?

4.) There is a protection against accidental modification of files. If I did not modify the file for pre-set period of time, it will lock it. Nice, very clever.

But, if there are files created by other users on the server, same rule applies!! If the owner of file modified it an hour ago, I can now accidentally modify it without any restriction!

I think this is an utter nonense, what do you think about it?

Thanks.

before you could just close without saving, now you cannot.

 

How you are going to find which version is the one you want to keep?

I really do not see your problem and you have just contradicted yourself. First you complain that files don't save when closing, now you are complaining they do save. 

If I want a file to be saved, I do a Cmd-S as I always did.  If my document is good I save it, if it is bad I quit with it unsaved, or now I can revert to a good version.

The versions are just an extension of the old .bak concept in Word and the presentation is in line with Time Machine backups.  Finding the historical version you want has the same difficulty. Although it is usually only one or two steps back.

You can revert to another version or even make edits between versions.

I wont pretend to understand why you are using Preview to edit a CAD document with multiple layers, unless it is a condensed version of the file. How large is the file?

putnik wrote:

 

quit but don't save

....

So now the file is in an "edited" state but not saved.

 

 

 

So what is different from any other file editing system. If you don't save the edit before you close the file?

 

 

In fact, if I make a messy edit, I want that it does not save automatically when I quit. This happens to me quite often...

That's precisely my issue.  In Lion, try doing the steps that I wrote.  The file *will* be saved automatically. It is autosaved by TextEdit while in an "edited" state (You will see "edited" in light grey in the title bar before you quit).  The file on disk doesn't represent the last version that I saved with "cmd-S". it is whatever happened to be on screen when I quit TextEdit.  In order to get the file I last saved with "cmd-S" I have to open TextEdit and then do a File->Revert document and then find the one that was saved with Cmd-S rather than an autosave that happened when I quit TextEdit.  This is a pain in the rear.  Furthermore there is no way that I can see to distinguish the two (an autosave and a cmd-S save) so I just have to figure out which is which on my own.

What's more.. a copy of the file doesn't retain all the previous versions.  Which means I can drag an autosaved version to a USB stick when, in fact I wanted the last version I saved with "cmd-S" and I can't get at the previous versions unless I go back to the original file. As I said before.. there is no way to know, from within the finder, that the file is an autosave and there is no way, within the finder, to browse previous versions.  So I will just blindly copy the wrong information because Lion is doing something silly with autosaving.

The wole thing is a confusing and complicated mess and Apple needs to get rid of it.

putnik wrote:

 

If I want a file to be saved, I do a Cmd-S as I always did.  If my document is good I save it, if it is bad I quit with it unsaved, or now I can revert to a good version.

It is *not* unsaved.  It is autosaved over top of your original file.  Try it.  I've tried this in Preview and TextEdit.  They both exhibit the same behaviour.

• Load a jpeg in Preview (one that you've modified recently so it's not locked)
• Brighten the colors
• Quit without hitting cmd-S (note that you don't get an option to quit without saving.. it just saves whether you want it or not)

• drag the jpeg from Finder into a new mail message
• note that the brighter colours are there

This is *bad*

Message was edited by: berj

• Load a jpeg in Preview (one that you've modified recently so it's not locked)
• Brighten the colors
• Quit without hitting cmd-S (note that you don't get an option to quit without saving.. it just saves whether you want it or not)

 

• drag the jpeg from Finder into a new mail message
• note that the brighter colours are there

 

Out of curiosity, I actually followed your steps although I usually use a photo editing software for this type of work. FWIW, to me, Preview is what its' name implies: a preview of an image, etc.

In any case, I followed your steps and, yes, the image is different (in my case, I darkened it).

But then, I did what you have not done:

I clicked on "browse all versions" (the tiny triangle right next to your document's name)

I was then able to pick whichever version I wanted, restore the old one, etc. - multiple options available. That part of Auto Save is called Versions.

You can use one of those in your email - there is no need to use the one you changed.

I was then able to pick whichever version I wanted, restore the old one, etc. - multiple options available. That part of Auto Save is called Versions.

You're missing the point. If I, the user, being the only one who knows what I do or do not want to save has not told the OS to save any changes, it should not be saving anything.

Kurt Lang wrote:

If I, the user, being the only one who knows what I do or do not want to save has not told the OS to save any changes, it should not be saving anything.

Right.

You're missing the point. If I, the user, being the only one who knows what I do or do not want to save has not told the OS to save any changes, it should not be saving anything.

Not really. I was simply offering a way to work with the "this-is-how-it-is-now-and-you-can't-do-anything-about-it" ways and "features" of Lion rather than just complaining about it. I absolutely loathe that feature of Lion - excuse me, there is another that I detest more: Resume. However, this is how the OS is designed and works, so unless you want to revert to SL (and I have two internal partitions: one with SL, one with Lion), you need to find a way to work with it that will make it suitable/workable for you.

You bought a new tool.

You must learn the way to use it.

If you aren't sure that you will want to save the ocument in progress, open the original, duplicate it and work on the replicate. As long as you will not save it, nothing will be written on the disk.

As I wrote many times, I didn4t wait for Lion to save documents which may be used to create new ones as templates/stationary.

Doing that I don't need to open then duplicate.

Preview was named this way when it was just a viewer. Each new version adde several functions so now it's more han a viewer. I would not use it to edit picture but some user do that. Once again, if you are not sure to retain your changes, work on a duplicate on define your original files as template.

It's really funny. The new features were perfectly described by Apple. Only users which bought new macs have no choice for their operating systems. Other weren't forced to buy an Operating system which doesn't fit your needs.

Good or Bad, Life is made of changes. You are perfectly free to behave as an adult customer and refuse a tool which doen't match our needs. Knowing Apple staff, I guess they knew that the new features will be rejecterd by a few customers. They just bet that new customers will be largely more numerous than old bored ones and it seems that they were right.

I didn't used Preview before Lion so I no more use it under Lion.

At this time, the new behavior apply to five applications it's really not a huge problem.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 25 octobre 2011 22:19:19

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Then, doesn't the "Edited" caption tell you that the file has changed. If you want an older version you just revert to it.

I was simply offering a way to work with the "this-is-how-it-is-now-and-you-can't-do-anything-about-it" ways and "features" of Lion rather than just complaining about it.

Complaining is how users get things changed. If no one complains, Apple can only assume everything is just peachy. To repeat (not directed at you personally) once again, this should be a user choice.

However, this is how the OS is designed and works, so unless you want to revert to SL (and I have two internal partitions: one with SL, one with Lion), you need to find a way to work with it that will make it suitable/workable for you.

Already did that from the day I purchased Lion. I set it up on an erased partition so I can test and play with it until I find it to be in a usable state. Actually, there's no reason I couldn't be using it now since I don't use a single Apple supplied app to do any work. So Quark, all Adobe software and everything else I use still does Save As.

Then, doesn't the "Edited" caption tell you that the file has changed. If you want an older version you just revert to it.

The point, again, is that I shouldn't have to waste my time reverting. If I had wanted to save any changes, I'd have done it myself.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

{snip}

 

It's really funny. The new features were perfectly described by Apple. Only users which bought new macs have no choice for their operating systems. Other weren't forced to buy an Operating system which doesn't fit your needs.{snip again...}

The new features were absolutely NOT perfectly described by Apple.  Yes, there were descriptions but there was nothing to lead one to conclude that there were some potentially serious problems with the implementation.

As one senior citizen to another you should have learned by now that sometimes the best response is no response.

babowa wrote:

 

You can use one of those in your email - there is no need to use the one you changed.

And as I pointed out in my original post in this thread.. versions are lost when you move a file from one volume to the next so the only one that exists is the autosaved one.. there is no way to revert.

This feature is incomplete and poorly thought out from the beginning.  It needs to be fully functional from the Finder in order to at least ameliorate some of these issues.

As a work-around, how about using duplicate with a particular version and then drag that over to another volume..... (remember, I am not making excuses for this, just trying to get it to work with as little effort as possible).

@ Kurt Lang:

I agree with most of what you said; however, I don't think Apple pays particular attention to these forums - I've submitted my share of product feedback countless times. Apple does look at those as well as the bug reports from the developer pages.

I agree with most of what you said; however, I don't think Apple pays particular attention to these forums

For the most part, no. Threads that get a lot of posts though do get escalated at times by the hosts to the powers that be.

I've submitted my share of product feedback countless times. Apple does look at those as well as the bug reports from the developer pages.

I've used the bug report site for a handful of things. I haven't brought this one up yet since it's getting so much attention in various threads, I kind of figured 10.7.2 would give users an option to disable Autosave/Versions/Duplicate, and use the traditional Save As method. But for now, it seems someone is unwilling to give users that choice. Which makes no sense. The user can always find ways to use a computer which best suits them. They can't do that if someone, somewhere, thinks they know better than you how you do your own work, or how you think. Which of course is impossible, but that's what this "feature" tries to do.