Q: Disable autosave

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

Versions doesn't damage a file if we just view it. It store only the changes.

If you type cmd + S when an already saved file is open, it's not Versions which is a wrongdoer, it's you.

 

But, even if you do that there is nothing damaged, the cmd + S command doesn't change the main file.

What are you talking about? Another "expert" who didn't even try the feature he is talking about?

Is is so difficult to actually try before posting, I was thinking "power users" should be able to do that?

Anyway, if you open a pdf file located on server, rotate pages (for viewing purposes - it's a basic pdf VIEWER feature - to rotate pages in case if it is more convenient to view them rotated), then force quit Preview(to somehow emulate the computer or aplication crash), you are left with the "edited" version of the file. I am not interested if this depends on file size, or whatever other factors that may be. Regardless, OS that behaves this way has a problem.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

As far as I know there is nothing forgiving somebody which doesn't share your opinion to write here. These forums aren't an annex of "Pravda".

Sorry, I am not able to understand this text, nor what does anything have to do with "Pravda". If you want to discuss annexes of "Pravda", maybe there is a better forum for that?

I didn't wait for your messages to work with Lion and Versions.

I already wrote that rotating a picture is editing it so it's normal that it's versioned.

The 'edited' state is not related to Versions but to Autosave.

If what you don't understand was restricted to my two late sentences your problem would be a minor one.

I will try to write these sentences with other words : as far as I know, I'm free to write here that I disagree with what you write.

Sometimes what I write match the Apple choices, sometimes it doesn't.

About Versions and Autosave I disagree with you and think that I'm allowed to write that.

From my point of view, the only drawback with Versions is that we have no official interface to extract versions of a document if this one is corrupted.

It's because I know Versions quite well that I was able to write scripts fitting the named gap.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 26 octobre 2011 21:45:10

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Yvan, you can write what ever you want, theoretically. And Apple can code and develop their apps like they want. theoretically. But besides the technical and legal rules there are more factors to take into account in the real world.

In your case I think you have no clue how to behave in the social system here, so you get the role of the strange dude posting a lot of crap.

Regarding Apple, they might have a great idea, but it only works out if "people" (the users) have the same oppinion and like, accept and use it. That's a common mistake in many industries: Engineers develop the technically best possible product, but no one buys it because a less perfect product might be far better in terms of usability.

That means for me that I would highly prefer the way without Versions/Autosave. The benefits are marginal and it just gives me too much headache and concerns about what is saved and what not. The app wants a lot of attention and clicks for tasks that shouldn't bother the user at all.

(1) Don't dream, I will continue to write here as long as this thread will be open.

(2) Apple is perfectly free to apply to their apps changes which you dislike. I will no reproduce one more time the license which clearly state that there is no guarantee that a given product fit your needs.

(3) I don't force you to change your advice, I repeqat and will continue to repeat that Apple is free to continue without taking care of your advice. If you get headaches,there are efficient medicines to fight them.

(4) During the life of Numbers '08, users like me left some users asking for documents opening in the middle of the screen without saying that from our point of view it was a bad idea.  The result was that Apple changed the behavior and delivered Numbers '09 with documents opening in the middle of the screen.

Same thing with headers which, to  accomodate some requests, dropped an important and efficient feature.

This time I will not behave the same.

You are free to post your wishes but I will continue to post why I feel that what you ask is a bad formula.

(5) At the very end, it's Apple which will decide. Here is an excerpt from Apple Interface Human Guidelines :

Even though that smaller group of power users is likely to have good ideas for features, the majority of your user base may not think in the same way. Involving a broad range of users in your design process can help you find the 80 percent solution.

I repeat that I am not saying that Versions and Autosave are required features but that making them optional would be dumb.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 09:26:33

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

On the whole, I can see where you're coming from, though I disagree. However, you've lost me with this statement. I got your point that you don't think Apple will listen. I got your point that Apple may not care, but I don't get this point:

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

...making them optional would be dumb.

 

 

How so?

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

(1) Don't dream, I will continue to write here as long as this thread will be open.

 

  The easy way to deal with this is:

Just scroll through your incoming emails, trash all the ones created by Koenig, and read all the other ones.

Life gets better !

I already answer that.

A safety feature make sense only when it apply every time.

Motocar drivers/passengers or aeroplane passengers aren't said "fasten your seat belt when you want".

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 10:42:38

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Yvan KOENIG wrote:

----

"I already answer that.

A safety feature make sense only when it apply every time.

Motocar drivers/passengers or aeroplane passengers aren't said "fasten your seat belt when you want"."

----

- I am afraid that the above fails to address the problems faced by those who find that Autosave and Versions are not safety features, but impediments to their workflow. Moreover they are unnecessary. They are not analogous to a seat belt. When sitting in a car or an aeroplane the very circumstance means that safety cannot be maintained without imposition of safety, because the situation is dangerous. But, it is not dangerous to let people learn how to save their work. On the contrary, if one refuses to let people learn they never will and thus they will remain unable to think for themselves and make appropriate choices. There is no greater safety in denying people the right to decide how their own computers should work. In an aeroplane it is impossible to reduce the risk as long as you arein the air. With a computer, you can always save manually in order to avoid loss of data.

Please do not tell me that I am unable to save my own data!

A similar principle is true for the "Library" in OS X Lion. Why is it hidden by default? It is not a relevant answer to say that it is for preventing people from messing with vulnerable parts of their system, because if you don't learn what is in your computer you cannot ever utilize it fully. How, for example, extract cache contents from a hidden Library? People who do not know that there is such a thing as a Library never learn, and they cannot learn how to act sensibly and avoid destroying something if they do not know about its existence. To try to protect people from themselves by limiting their options is always a bad idea.

If something is dangerous, it is preferable to learn how to handle it.

If something is dangerous, it is preferable to learn how to handle it.

Precisely!  A "safety device" is useful only as it can be intentionally turned off, otherwise it becomes a nuisance. My shop table saw has lots of safety devices that need to be removed for certain operations.  The operator needs to learn how to use it.  I've migrated here from the Keynote discussion thread.  Keynote 5.1 is incompatible with OS 10.7 when you have imbedded videos.  Autosave/Versions bogs it down hopelessly. The only solution is to stay with Keynote 5.0.5 which does not use the Autosave/Versions feature.

Lion is looking more and more like Apple's Vista.

Nice point, Vista Fanboy!

After 27 years of working with Macintosh OS, I know a bomb when I see one.    OS 10.7 is doing a great job driving people to MS Office.

Agreed William. I bought it when it first came out and, after 5 frustrating, hair-pulling days, I went back to Snow Leopard (THANK GOD I had the foresight to do a complete Time Machine backup before I "upgraded").

I keep returning to this forum in hopes that they have fixed the many, many, many problems with Lion, but I just keep hearing the same horrible thing. One of the main reasons I won't upgrade to a new Mac is that I don't want to get stuck with Lion.

Do we need to drive to Cupertino and BEG them to fix this sloppy, useless OS? When does OSX 10.8 come out?

Holding iWork to v. 9.0.5 (which in effect surpresses Autosave/Versions) is a workable solution short of downgrading to 10.6.  I'm seeing enough quirky behavior from Lion, including arbitrarily leaving web sites such as this one while in Safari, to lead me to wonder if Lion was not yet ready for prime time.  It seems that the big push was to get OS X up to speed with iOS 5 for the sake of iCloud and some other iPhone related bells and whistles, causing me to wonder whether the profitable iPhone/iPad/iPod market is displacing computers and productivity software within Apple.  Apple's reputation for seamless integration of software has taken a big hit here.

How refreshing to find another thread in which Yvan is carrying on just as he has in all the others: obdurately insisting that he is right, while completely ignoring posters who show very convincingly how wrong he is. (I notice he made no response, for example, to the poster who said that Auto Save made it impossible for him to work in Keynote, Auto Saving literally every couple of keystrokes in such a way that his work ground to a virtual halt. Want to bet that he ignores it again, now that I've brought it up?)

Let's see how he does with this one: Yvan, you state that "I will continue to post why I feel that what you ask is a bad formula" and "making them optional would be dumb."

The thing is, you have never once posted WHY making Auto Save/Versioning optional would be "bad forumula" or "dumb"..you've just stated it as if this truth was self-evident.

Please describe to us, in plain English (oops, sorry...strike that last phrase! — and by the way, I have no problem with the way you write our language, just the attitude behind it), the sheer havoc that would result if Lion 10.3 comes out with Auto Save/Versioning as the default, but able to be disabled via System Preferences.

Please be very specific in your description.

And I would like to hear how bringing back the extremely simple, efficient, and useful SaveAs would be a "bad" thing while you are at it.