Q: Disable autosave

I already wrote several times but you appear to be unable to understand that a safety device must be available every time.

When a worker  is on scaffoldings he must be attached.

When somebody is in a motorcar, he must fasten his seat belt

Same thing when you are in an airplane.

I studied to become an engineer (then I decided to work as a potter) but during my studies Safety was an important discipline.

The rule is never trust upon the beings to decide when a device is useful request that it's always activated.

If you behave the other way, you may be sure that the accident will strike when the device is out.

Other examples :

navigators must be attached during races.

cyclists and motor-cyclists must wear their casque (helmet).

Vaccination against several diseases are obligatory for the same reasons

As far as I know, smoking is no longer allowed in the USA for safety reasons and I hope that it will soon be the same here in France.

As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

Navigators dislike the fact to be attached but they apply the rule.

Cyclists dislike the fact to have their casque during the "Tour de France" but they have no choice, they must apply the rule.

In France, a motor-cyclist driving his machine without wearing a casque is stopped by policemen

…

Workers dislike the fact to must attach themselves when they are on scaffoldings but since that they are forced to do that, the number of mortal accidents was drastically reduced.

Apple decided to play safety.

They did that when they decided that every application must embed sandboxing features.

This is why Rosetta is no longer available and why sandboxing compatibility is required to be accepted on the MAS.

Apple applications apply these safety rules. If you like playing with matches, it's your problem and you are free to use non Apple products.

On its side, Apple is perfectly consistent.

If you want to play an other game, they are a lot of applications able to fit your wishes but don't ask Apple to break the schemes which they patiently designed knowing perfectly that some users will disagree with them.

Last week I responded in a Pages dedicated forum to a user writing that it was inacceptable that iWork 9.0.5 applications don't embed an Autosave feature.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 23:04:09

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Hahahaha!!! Your answer is funny only because it was so predictable. Yet another in a series of "answers" in this thread which were neither helpful, nor informative. Okay, maybe a little helpful as you once again explain the lack of being able to sandbox apps which required Rosetta to run, making its exclusion necessary in the name of increased security, but has zero to do with the issue in this thread.

I particuarly like this one, which you repeat often:

As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

And so for the past 20+ years of computing, was it complete disorder and constant disaster to NOT have these "features"? Sorry to say, but I and 99.99999% of the Earth's population have never had trouble doing something so utterly complex as pressing Command+S every so often.

You arguments are completely baseless. And again, no one is asking Apple to completely remove these new features for those who prefer it, just that users have the CHOICE. Why in the world are you fighting this when you would still be able to continue with your beloved Autosave/Versions/Duplicate? Why do you care in the least if others don't want it?

The problem of Save As… is related to Versions & Autosave but it's a completely different one.

I explained several time but it seems that some of you have difficulties to read carefully.

Apple removed Save As… from five applications :

Keynote

Numbers

Pages

Preview

TextEdit

In an other one : Xcode, they added a new item so that the app offer Save As… and Duplicate.

I'm not working for Apple so I can just try to guess why they made this choice for iWork components.

The first thing to take in account is that, as Steeve Jobs said, iWork 9.1 was built in a hurry.

They wanted to keep most of the code identical for the 10.6 dedicated version and for the 10.7 dedicated one.

This required that the total number of the File menu items remain the one which it was in iWork 9.0.5.

In Pages for Lion, they need a menu item allowing us to deliberately trigger Versions.

This is what is done with the modified Save item which behave as it did in the past when a document was never saved before but received an ellipsis (it's now Save…) to claim that it open a Save dialog and which become Save a version when the document was saved once (no ellipsis in this care because the excecution apply silently with no dialog).

They wanted a Duplicate item and they choose to drop Save As… to introduce the newby.

My own choice would have been different.

I would have keep Save As… (with a new behavior) and would have drop the Export menu item which has a replicate in the Share menu.

But

(1) I'm not an Apple employee

(2) I remember that the File > Export item was unavailable in the first release of iWork '09 (engineers assumed that having such item in the Share menu was sufficient) but so many entry level users complained against that that the item was reintroduced in the first update : iWork 9.0.1 if I remeber well.

So, I assume they they didn't wanted to move back on this point.

I wrote : "keep Save As… (with a new behavior) " because I guess that it would be in fact an item doing exactly what I delivered with my SaveAs script : create a duplicate, save it so that Versions would continue to apply to the main document.

Apple clearly explained that one of the goals of the new scheme is to allow us to save a state of a document at a given time with a different name so that we keep at front the original doc when the old scheme renamed the document at front. To save an already saved once document, we hase a single scheme available : close it

I may understand that you dislike the introduced scheme but it's consistent.

Apple explained that moving a document break the links between itself and the saved versions. It's one of the features, with the more important problem of corrupted files (Every week, I receive at least five of them, made under old systems, asked to revive them) which pushed me to write a set of script allowing us to extract the existing versions, task for which Apple doesn't offer any kind of tool.

I'm not a sooth sayer but I would not be surprised if the next major upgrade of iWork apps (which from my point of view will not be Snow Leropard compatible) offer one more item in the File menu giving us Save As… and Duplicate.

But, at least as long as this major upgrade is not delivered, we will have to work without  Save As…

I have nothing to sell so I feel free to say that my SaveAs script encapsulated in a Service by Peggy De Lise offer a neat answer which may be linked to the shortcut cmd + shift + S

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 23:58:23

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I and 99.99999% of the Earth's population have never had trouble doing something so utterly complex as pressing Command+S every so often.

 

 

So nothing has changed, I still hit Cmd-S when my document is the way I want it, just like I always did. 

If I have important data to edit, I backup the original, before I start,  in case things go wrong or I wish to revert.

It clearly tells you if there are unsaved edits, so it's up to you to save them or revert, before closing the app.

All Versions does is give you more recovery options and some neat ability to edit between versions. It has helped me already on more than one occassion.

So nothing has changed,

Of course it has changed. The system is wasting huge amounts of system resources saving versions I don't care in the least about. It is just saving every little thing you do.

Much worse, it is saving things without my permission, or asking. Just because I open a document and play around with it a bit, does not automatically mean I want to save those changes. When I close the document, *I* will say whether or not I want to save the changes. But because Lion idiotically does, I have to waste time reverting that document to its original state either before, or after I close it. I can work much faster without this stupid system.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

I already wrote several times ....

 

As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

 

 

Instead of writing the same all the time, try to think about it again from different perspectives and try to understand why you don't get the response you would expect. It's just so annoying to see your blah blah over and over again in which you are obviously missing the point.

People don't want to get rid of the safety feature or turn it on/off occasionally. They just choose to turn it off because it has more disadvantages than advantages for them. It breaks the usability. So it's not about the safety at all, it's about usability of the app that has changed.

The "safety" analogy is a bit misleading.  We're talking data "safety" not human safety.  The computers are not blowing up and killing people.  Even granted the safety analogy, safety vs productivity is always a balancing act.  I intentionally remove the bladeguards of my table saw in spite of the increased risk of cutting off my fingers for the increased productivity and functionality that results.  It's a calculated, intentional risk.  If "safety" is really the issue, then it's highly overstated here.  Anyone who knows to toggle the Autosave feature at the application or OS level, knows enough to assume to risk of data loss. 

Personally, I would gladly take the risk of the occasional lost doc (two in 27 years of computer work, one due to hard disk failure, one due to my cat), than put up with an intrusive "safety" device.

it is saving things without my permission, or asking. Just because I open a document and play around with it a bit, does not automatically mean I want to save those changes. When I close the document, *I* will say whether or not I want to save the changes.

Perhaps you should note that Excel has also had an autosave feature for many years, but without the ability to revert to previous versions.

All Versions does is give you more recovery options and some neat ability to edit between versions. It has helped me already on more than one occassion.

The best thing about Versions is that in the event you are ever involved in a legal dispute, investigators can go back into your computer and trace everything that was done.

In the past, people had too much control over their computers.

Kurt Lang wrote:

 

So nothing has changed,

Of course it has changed. The system is wasting huge amounts of system resources saving versions I don't care in the least about. It is just saving every little thing you do.

 

Much worse, it is saving things without my permission, or asking. Just because I open a document and play around with it a bit, does not automatically mean I want to save those changes. When I close the document, *I* will say whether or not I want to save the changes. But because Lion idiotically does, I have to waste time reverting that document to its original state either before, or after I close it. I can work much faster without this stupid system.

I will reuse your own words:

You idiotically failed to use the app's features. If you are unable to decide when you start a session of work that your changes will be valid ones, just trigger the Duplicate menu item and work on the replicate.

As long as you will not explicitely ask the app to save, it will not do. If you decide to keep the changes you will have two ways to do that:

(1) close the opriginal and save the replicate upon the original, what you did in the past

(2) copy the duplicate contents and paste it in the original file.

With this scheme, you are sure that you will not loose the contents of the original by an erroneous Save.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 11:32:55

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

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The best thing about Versions is that in the event you are ever involved in a legal dispute, investigators can go back into your computer and trace everything that was done.

 

In the past, people had too much control over their computers.

Not to mention the "Thought Police"

papalapapp wrote:

 

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

I already wrote several times ....

 

As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

 

 

 

Instead of writing the same all the time, try to think about it again from different perspectives and try to understand why you don't get the response you would expect. It's just so annoying to see your blah blah over and over again in which you are obviously missing the point.

 

People don't want to get rid of the safety feature or turn it on/off occasionally. They just choose to turn it off because it has more disadvantages than advantages for them. It breaks the usability. So it's not about the safety at all, it's about usability of the app that has changed.

Your own blah blah it at least so boring than mine.

If you don't wan't an application with an Autosave feature, you are free to do that.

There are a lot of such apps available.

When you bought a license to use an Apple Software you agreed with the license which state :

8. Disclaimer of Warranties.

A. YOU EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT USE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES  IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND THAT THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO SATISFACTORY QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, ACCURACY AND EFFORT IS WITH YOU. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON MEDIA SET FORTH ABOVE AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES ARE PROVIDED “AS IS”, WITH ALL FAULTS AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND APPLE AND APPLE'S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO AS “APPLE” FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 8 and 9) HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND/OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY, OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OF ACCURACY, OF QUIET ENJOYMENT, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS. APPLE DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES, THAT THE FUNCTIONS CONTAINED IN THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, THAT THE OPERATION OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT DEFECTS IN THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL BE CORRECTED. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES ARE NOT INTENDED OR SUITABLE FOR USE IN SITUATIONS OR ENVIRONMENTS WHERE THE FAILURE OF, OR ERRORS OR INACCURACIES IN THE CONTENT, DATA OR INFORMATION PROVIDED BY, THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, LIFE SUPPORT OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION OR ADVICE GIVEN BY APPLE OR AN APPLE AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SHOULD THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR LIMITATIONS ON APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSION AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

It seems that you didn't understood what you accepted.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 11:44:58

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

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Ziatron wrote:

 

All Versions does is give you more recovery options and some neat ability to edit between versions. It has helped me already on more than one occassion.

 

The best thing about Versions is that in the event you are ever involved in a legal dispute, investigators can go back into your computer and trace everything that was done.

 

In the past, people had too much control over their computers.

You have the same control over your machine than before.

If you don't wan't to let versions on your computer, you may delete the folder storing them :

--{code}

--[SCRIPT delete_versions]

(*

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France)

2011/08/29

*)

property redemarrageRequis : true

tell application "System Events" to set les_volumes to name of every disk whose local volume is true

repeat with un_volume in les_volumes

          set ledossier to un_volume & ":.DocumentRevisions-V100:"

          tell application "System Events" to set maybe to exists disk item ledossier

          if maybe then

                    set cheminUnix to quoted form of POSIX path of ledossier

  do shell script "chmod -R 777 " & cheminUnix with administrator privileges

  delay 2

                    do shell script "chmod -R 777 " & cheminUnix

  delay 2

                    do shell script "chmod -R 777 " & cheminUnix

                    try

                              tell application "Finder" to delete (ledossier as alias)

                    end try

          end if

end repeat

if redemarrageRequis then

          set redemarrageRequis to false

          tell application "System Events" to restart

else

          set redemarrageRequis to true

end if

--=====

--[/SCRIPT]

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 11:50:16

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

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You're missing it again. Not even close.

I have no hope to convince you.

I just decided to not let your dumb messages with no response.

You think that you have some rights upon what Apple products must be but you have absolutely none.

Happily, Apple is free to do what it want with its products.

If you want products whose editor stick to every requests of users, buy M…oSoft products.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 14:40:57

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

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