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lucafrombrooklyn

Q: Disable autosave

Hello, anybody figured out how one can disable autosave? I just *don't* want it, and I have my reasons.

Thanks,

 

l.

Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 21, 2011 10:30 AM

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Q: Disable autosave

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  • by Bob Peters,

    Bob Peters Bob Peters Oct 28, 2011 5:55 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 2 (290 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 5:55 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    Since you "have no hope to convince you" then why do you insist on trying?  We have heard your opinion and it has been duly noted.  But instead of reading other opinions as just that, opinions, you seem to feel compelled to respond to most posts.  Why?

     

    And then you say, in response to papalapapp, "I just decided to not let your dumb messages with no response.".  Yesterday I made the statement "Please go away."  (Note that word, "please".)  Rather than take it as a polite suggestion you whined to the moderators and, for reasons I'll never understand, my very mild comment was removed and I received a "personalized" message from a moderator.

     

    Asking someone to "please go away" is not nearly as insulting as "I just decided to not let your dumb messages with no response".

     

    Your comments (more that 60 of them in this thread alone) are redundant and pedantic in the extreme.

     

     

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    I have no hope to convince you.

    I just decided to not let your dumb messages with no response.

    You think that you have some rights upon what Apple products must be but you have absolutely none.

    Happily, Apple is free to do what it want with its products.

    If you want products whose editor stick to every requests of users, buy M…oSoft products.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 14:40:57

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Oct 28, 2011 6:34 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 28, 2011 6:34 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    I will reuse your own words:

    And hugely inaccurately at that.

    You idiotically failed to use the app's features.

    Oh gee, thanks Yvan. I talk about software as idiotic or stupid, but you directly call me an idiot. Not to mention your comment makes no sense whatsoever. What features? What app?

    If you are unable to decide when you start a session of work that your changes will be valid ones, just trigger the Duplicate menu item and work on the replicate.

    Funny that I can do much more easily and faster with Save As. A person isn't always going to know right away if the changes they make warrant a new version. With Save As, I can make that decision at any point and create the new file in one keystroke. No need to:

     

    • Duplicate

    • Go back to the original open document

    • Use the top menu to revert to its original state

    • Close the original

    • Press Command+S to finally save the duplicate to a new name

     

    And you still think this series of steps is better? Save As creates a new file without having to revert anything. The original is automatically closed as its original state. No need for you to waste time manually reverting it.

    As long as you will not explicitly ask the app to save, it will not do.

    What??!! Are you thinking at all before you write? Saving your work without asking is EXACTLY what autosave does!

    If you decide to keep the changes you will have two ways to do that:

    (1) close the original and save the replicate upon the original, what you did in the past

    (2) copy the duplicate contents and paste it in the original file.

    Again, complete waste of time. Though in this case, I mean even trying to discuss this topic with you.

    With this scheme, you are sure that you will not loose the contents of the original by an erroneous Save.

    Beyond laughable. An "erroneous Save"? Seeing as how you have to consciously press Command+S to save something, it's very difficult to do so in error. I can count the number of times I've "accidentally" saved something on one hand. Let's see, in 20+ years of computing, that would be - zero. Whereas autosave automatically erroneously saves data. Oh yeah, that's a great improvement.

     

    Seriously, what in the world is wrong with you? You're like an evangelist who seems to believe that because others don't think the same way he does, the unwashed masses need to be saved from themselves. Sorry, but I'm perfectly fine without Autosave/Versions/Duplicate. If you want it, believe me, you can have it. But don't you dare insinuate that because I don't agree with you that I am automatically wrong, or need to be "saved".

     

    Seriously, honestly, get out of this thread. You're doing nothing but wasting everyone's time.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Oct 28, 2011 7:19 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 7:19 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    One more time you prove that you are unable to make the difference between a sentence telling : this is better than that

    and a sentence telling : at this time you may achieve your goal this way.

     

    Five Apple applications behave a way which don't give you the ability to apply your old protocol.

     

    Repeating twenty or even hundred times that you are bored by this change will not bring back Save As.

     

    Apple had no reason to ask your advice and has no reason to take care of your recriminations.

     

    They made their own choices.

    If you are satisfied with them it's fine for you. If you aren’t you may :

    complain here during months

    learn an alternate way to use the modified product

    drop it.

     

    I have no personal need for Autosave/Versions. For years I use a scheme which don't allow me to save on the original documents and I use an AutoSave Script which keep copies saved every ten minutes. And I never close a document after saving it with its original name.

    I save it with a new name (yes, it's a replicate) and when it's done I try to open the file saved with the original name. If it open well, I know that I have a good file. If it doesn't, I am able to try to save the document which is open but wore the new name on an alternate device or in an alternate format to get rid of the oddity.

     

    Alas, I'm not representative of the standard user and you are no more than me.

     

    Every week users complain in iWork forums because they loose their documents which most of the time is their own fault (they didn't backup) but in other case, there are users which took time to duplicate their file without assuming that they were duplicating a corrupted file.

    Apple decided to take care of these users and even if you dislike this choice, it's a good one. This feature was wanted by new users and satisfying newbies is an important issue much more than satisfying old ones.

    Only a short percentage of old users will drop Apple products for such reason and the result will be higher profit.

    With this scheme, you are sure that you will not loose the contents of the original by an erroneous Save.

    Beyond laughable. An "erroneous Save"? Seeing as how you have to consciously press Command+S to save something, it's very difficult to do so in error.

     

    Alas you are wrong.

    I receive every week files resulting of an odd cmd + S and am asked if I may revive the original datas.

     

    Versions is really useful for these users.

     

    You are free to dislike that but I doubt that you will get a change in the Apple choices.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 16:18:54

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Oct 28, 2011 7:56 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 28, 2011 7:56 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Repeating twenty or even hundred times that you are bored by this change will not bring back Save As.

    Complaining is how things are restored, altered or brought to a compromise. Only if consumers say nothing does nothing change.

    Alas you are wrong.

    I receive every week files resulting of an odd cmd + S and am asked if I may revive the original datas.

    That is something you absolutely cannot prove. Remember, you said "receive every week". Receive meaning you got the files from another party. So no, you cannot possibly know if that person "accidentally" did a save unless they tell you.

     

    It's unbelievable that this thread has expanded out to 36 pages when the solution could have been stated after the very first post:

     

    Make it a user option.

     

    There is no need to discuss this any further.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Oct 28, 2011 8:04 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 8:04 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt Lang wrote:

    Alas you are wrong.

    I receive every week files resulting of an odd cmd + S and am asked if I may revive the original datas.

    That is something you absolutely cannot prove. Remember, you said "receive every week". Receive meaning you got the files from another party. So no, you cannot possibly know if that person "accidentally" did a save unless they tell you.

    When users send me files asking me to try to revive them, when it's not a problem of corruption, they honestly tell : I made a mistake and press cmd + S when I wanted to press cmd + shift +S to save with an other name.

    It's unbelievable that this thread has expanded out to 36 pages when the solution could have been stated after the very first post:

     

    Make it a user option.

    It's your advice but you must admit that other users may disagree with you.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 28 octobre 2011 16:59:48

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Oct 28, 2011 8:13 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 28, 2011 8:13 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    It's your advice but you must admit that other users may disagree with you.

    Which you obnoxiously do in response to every post which mentions it.

  • by ron App,

    ron App ron App Oct 28, 2011 9:50 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 9:50 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:


    I already wrote that rotating a picture is editing it so it's normal that it's versioned.

    First, I was talking about pdf document. Second, if I am viewing the document (with the viewer, which Preview is, according to Apple) and rotate the view for more convenient viewing, I am NOT editing. If Aple did not master a viewer that does not destroy the document I am viewing, it's a fail. Third, I and only I can possibly know if I am viewing or editing. Not you, not Apple, not any kind of software can know if I am viewing or editing. That is exactly the reason why combined viewer-editor should not any automated saving over the original document.

     

     

    The 'edited' state is not related to Versions but to Autosave.

    And?  Who cares, except KOENIG Yvan? Trust me, if software damages files, I do not care if that is due to Versions or Autosave. Plus, if I close the file, message says that volume does not support permanent storage of VERSIONS, and therefore it will not be possible to revert. So, either you are wrong, or Apple.

     

     

    as far as I know, I'm free to write here that I disagree with what you write.

    Did you really think that I am trying to restrict your rights of writing? Seriously? Honestly, I just for a while thought that your endless writing might have some kind of purpose, that is why I asked. Sorry if I was not very clear and have offended you somehow.

  • by ron App,

    ron App ron App Oct 28, 2011 9:58 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 9:58 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    A safety feature make sense only when it apply every time.

    Motocar drivers/passengers or aeroplane passengers aren't said "fasten your seat belt when you want".

    Oh, now you have shown that you do not know what is "safety feature".

    Your comparison with drivers/passengers is ridiculos, but even then - when I was flying last time (about a week ago), it was EXACTLY like you said it is not. Passengers were kindly advised to fasten their seat belts if they are seated.

    You would even have a difficulty to get out of your car with seatbelt fastened, yet that is EXACTLY what Apple has done in Lion Preview.

  • by William C.,

    William C. William C. Oct 28, 2011 10:20 AM in response to ron App
    Level 1 (115 points)
    Oct 28, 2011 10:20 AM in response to ron App

    Precisely the point.  If one buys into the analogy to physical safety and restraint devices such as seat belts, these are only as "safe" as they can be overridden.  Lion's Autosave/Versions is the equivalent of seat belts that automatically buckle you in and won't release you no matter what you need to do.  This is why schoolbuses do not have seat belts.  Though there is a marginal increase in safety, since children may not be able to release them in an emergency, they hamper rescue.

  • by DChord568,

    DChord568 DChord568 Oct 28, 2011 10:59 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (14 points)
    iWork
    Oct 28, 2011 10:59 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    I wrote:

     

     

    Please describe to us, in plain English (oops, sorry...strike that last phrase! — and by the way, I have no problem with the way you write our language, just the attitude behind it), the sheer havoc that would result if Lion 10.3 comes out with Auto Save/Versioning as the default, but able to be disabled via System Preferences.

     

    Please be very specific in your description.

     

    KOENIG Yvan replied:

     

    I already wrote several times but you appear to be unable to understand that a safety device must be available every time.

     

    etc. etc. (i.e., ridiculous examples with no pertinence whatsoever to a computing environment)

     

     

    As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

     

    As usual, you have utterly failed to answer my question as posed.

     

    I asked for a specific description. I asked you to describe the havoc that would ensue if Auto Save/Versioning were the default, but capable of being turned off.

     

    Under this scheme, if a user does nothing after installing Lion, then all of your precious "safety features" you apparently feel the world needs to save itself from itself remain intact.

     

    If I as a user choose to disable these features, then guess what happens: I return to the very same Macintosh computing universe I have happily existed in FOR THE PAST 23 YEARS. In the course of that time frame, I and millions of other Macintosh users have somehow managed the extraordinary effort of keying Command-S every so often.

     

    And guess what else: if I have occasionally failed to do this as judiciously as I should have and have lost work, then SHAME ON ME. *I* will take the blame; I won't shove it off on my operating system and say it has failed me and should have saved me from my own stupidity.

     

    So once again I ask you: tell me EXACTLY what will happen if Auto Save/Versioning is the default in Lion but is capable of being disabled at the user's choice. I want a detailed description of the scenerios of chaos, broken lives and worldwide mayhem you believe will descend like a plague upon the earth.

     

    I predict that, in typical fashion, you'll simply ignore this request, as you've done time and time again when you have no answer. We'll be watching.

     

     

     

    Meanwhile, your repeated singing of the same song is getting extemely tedious. I don't want to hear your facile "You're free to use other products" mantra any more. I happen to like Pages very much. It has been my default Word Processor every day of my working life since I finally had to abandon WriteNow with the demise of Classic support. If you please, point me to a Word Processor with Pages' particular mix of capabilities that will fit my workflow comparably.

     

    You won't be able to do it. And you'll have an even more difficult time pointing the Keynote user for whom Auto Save has rendered the program unusable (and whose plight you have ignored, just exactly as I said you would in my last post) to a program with its comparable ease of use.

     

    Like so many others here, I have been a great lover of Apple's hardware, system software and productivity products for a very long time. When they mess with them in a way that makes them less productive, more difficult, and in some cases out-and-out dangerous to use, then **** right I'm gonna complain about it.

     

    And please spare us your other Greatest Hit: "Your complaints will do no good, Apple can do what it wants to do." Others have pointed out specific instances (which again you've conveniently failed to acknowledge) of consumer complaints resulting in changes.

     

    Our hope is that a loud enough chorus of these complaints might yet effect a similar change in this instance. Our case is solid, our logic irrefutable. We can only hope that those with the power to make these decisions don't look at the world with your brand of myopic vision.

  • by Tom in London,

    Tom in London Tom in London Oct 28, 2011 11:36 AM in response to ron App
    Level 4 (1,626 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 28, 2011 11:36 AM in response to ron App

    someone wrote:

     

    if software damages files....

     

    And that is precisely the point. I know there are end-user agreements and all the rest of it, and I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that the files I create (or receive from others) are MY PROPERTY; and that Apple is not entitled to modify my property in any way, without my permission *in each instance*.

  • by putnik,

    putnik putnik Oct 28, 2011 9:46 PM in response to Tom in London
    Level 3 (795 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 28, 2011 9:46 PM in response to Tom in London

    Apple is not entitled to modify my property in any way, without my permission *in each instance*.

    As I've pointed out already, Excel and some other software programs have been doing this for many years.

     

    May I suggest we ask for the ability to choose the number of versions being saved, say between 0 and 5, which should satisfy those who don't want any, and those who like the security of being able to revert, but have reservations about the consequences of having obsolete copies lurking around forever.

  • by Tom in London,

    Tom in London Tom in London Oct 29, 2011 2:22 AM in response to putnik
    Level 4 (1,626 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 29, 2011 2:22 AM in response to putnik

    putnik wrote:

     

    Apple is not entitled to modify my property in any way, without my permission *in each instance*.

    As I've pointed out already, Excel and some other software programs have been doing this for many years.

    I don't know if that's true or not. My point is that any computer files I create are surely my property, or aren't they?

     

    I may be wrong but don't believe any third party, including Apple, should have any legal entitlement to modify files created by me, unless I specifically permit them to do so in each instance.

     

    Or maybe there's something in my End User Agreement with Apple (I confess I haven't read it in detail) on the basis of which I give blanket permission to Apple to change my files, lock them, save them, create duplicated versions of them, etc. without my say-so?

     

    Just askin'

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Oct 29, 2011 2:50 AM in response to Tom in London
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Oct 29, 2011 2:50 AM in response to Tom in London

    Excerpt of Pages's license:

     

    9. Limitation of Liability. TO THE EXTENT NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL APPLE BE LIABLE FOR PERSONAL INJURY, OR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF DATA, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION OR ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO YOUR USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES, HOWEVER CAUSED, REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY (CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE) AND EVEN IF APPLE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR PERSONAL INJURY, OR OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. In no event shall Apple's total liability to you for all damages (other than as may be required by applicable law in cases involving personal injury) exceed the amount of fifty dollars ($50.00). The foregoing limitations will apply even if the above stated remedy fails of its essential purpose

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 29 octobre 2011 11:50:21

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>


    Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

     

     

  • by paulsalter,

    paulsalter paulsalter Oct 29, 2011 2:55 AM in response to putnik
    Level 2 (465 points)
    Oct 29, 2011 2:55 AM in response to putnik

    Which version of Excel auto saves documents ?

     

    I have been using the Office products for a long time (windows versions) and have never had it auto save anything

     

    is it an option which is off as default ?

     

    EDIT: found info, it is an option, which is what people are asking for here, you are not forced to use auto save in excel, as far as i can see

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