Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?

KB from Ontario wrote:

NiqueXyZ wrote:

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This is completely inaccurate. I have several thunderbolt displays at my work and they act just like normal displays -- they will become greyed out if you are running 10.7 or 10.8 and run a full screen app on another display.

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OK. Just so I'm clear, you've tested this configuration and you're verifying that even WITH an Apple Thunderbolt Display attached to a Macbook Pro there is NO difference in behavour of "full-screen app" mode - all but one monitor becomes greyed out and and essentially useless.

Thanks for letting us know and clearing up what amounts to an ugly rumour from a supposed Apple tech.

What's funny is this dumb "feature" is what is keeping me from buying an Apple-branded thunderbolt monitor.

What's funny is this dumb "feature" is what is keeping me from buying an Apple-branded thunderbolt monitor.

You would certainly loose functionality if you are someone who uses Mission Control or Fullscreen Apps.

Having said that, you could run your applications not in fullscreen. But doing this often times makes it seem pointless to even use Mission Control since a lot of your applications would still need to be set to "all Desktops"

TheSmokeMonster wrote:

Having said that, you could run your applications not in fullscreen. But doing this often times makes it seem pointless to even use Mission Control since a lot of your applications would still need to be set to "all Desktops"

That's all a matter of individual work flow, I guess. I run six desktops across two monitors and the only app I've ever set to all desktops is Finder. Even if I need to copy from one app and paste into another across different desktops, I typically just Cmd-Tab to the target app. Quick and no fuss at all.

I found a simple work around for two programs that severly suffered from this full-screen bug. For Quicktime, just use the Quicktime 7 player - it has a different full-screen mode that switches only one monitor and leaves all the others untouched, i.e. fully useable for other applications.

As for Apple's DVD player, I copied version 5.4 from a Snow Leopard installation. Like Quicktime 7, it comes with its own full-screen mode, which leaves all other screens useable.

It's not a workaround but, here is how I think it could be made to work better:

1. Each application in Fullscreen mode would take control of the monitor it is inhabiting, and only that screen.

2. This would in effect treat that monitor as the primary display for that app, giving the user access to the Menubar and Dock as they would on the actual primary display.

3. Other screens are unaffected by this, therefore allowing the user to have multiple fullscreen-ed apps and non fullscreen-ed apps running simultaneously. Excluding apps on external monitors that are not in fullscreen mode, all apps would have access to the Menubar and Dock as needed.

4. Users with Hot Corners enabled would be able to use them on their external displays with fullscreen-ed apps as though they were on the primary display.

5. Upon closing the app it returns to it's normal screen mode, other apps and screens are unaffected.

6. Upon turing off a monitor with an open fullscreen-ed app that app is moved to the right side of Mission Control's list.

7. Users could move fullscren-ed apps between displays within Mission Control. The system would automatically swap applications between the two displays upon user interaction of dragging a fullscreen-ed app from one display to another with an app that is also in fullscreen mode.

What do you guys think?

The issue with all of the suggestions in this thread, including this one and any that I could come up with is this:

From OS X Human Interface Guidelines:

Use modern APIs to enable a full-screen window. If your app enabled a full-screen window in earlier versions of OS X, you should update your code to take advantage of the full-screen behavior introduced in OS X v10.7. Users expect to see windows transition to a new space and they expect to be able to switch between them and see them displayed in Mission Control. When you use the modern APIs, you can take advantage of the system-provided support for these behaviors, so that you can give users a consistent experience.

Apple has decided that users expect full screen apps to be in their own space, be visible in MC and be switchable using trackpad gestures. Unless a suggestion satisfies all of those things, and has consistent behaviour on one screen and multiple screens, it won't even be considered.

The fact that users actually don't 'expect' their additional screens to become useless when, e.g. watching a movie is apparently beside the point...

To he|| with that!! ALL DEVELOPERS should implement their own full-screen functionality, the same as before 10.7.

This Apple full screen API is complete horse manure. The same with Mission Control.

And if they don't let it, let they publically do something about it. Push me harder to go back to Linux. Go ahead. I want you to.

Mac 101

NorrinRadd wrote:

To he|| with that!! ALL DEVELOPERS should implement their own full-screen functionality, the same as before 10.7.

This Apple full screen API is complete horse manure. The same with Mission Control.

And if they don't let it, let they publically do something about it. Push me harder to go back to Linux. Go ahead. I want you to.

I'm with ya on the manure, but I'd rather not have Apple push me back to Linux. I've got far too much money invested in an OS X-based work flow to have any desire to try to make this all happen on Linux. I spent some serious time looking at the logistics of it and a move to Linux would be non-trivial for me. As such, the only short-term solution I have available is to stick with Snow Leopard and this MacBook2,1 for as long as both are supported. Once the MacBook reaches "vintage" support status, I'll have to take a hard, hard look at the pain of upgrading to a new MBP versus switching to Linux on different hardware.

Neither choice seems all that appealing.

CT wrote:

Mac 101

Does that imply that 43 pages of complaining later, we don't understand the problem? ROTFLMAO

CT's responses are mostly troll posts

jonaboff91 wrote:

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The fact that users actually don't 'expect' their additional screens to become useless when, e.g. watching a movie is apparently beside the point...

I really take exception to this statement as the expectation of enhanced, rather than degraded functionality is the point.

I don't expect 'upgrades' to the operating system to degrade the functionality of that operating system or to render my SIGNIFICANT investment in Apple hardware (and time invested in Apple workflow) to be degraded or made less functional.

I do expect that 'upgraded' features, such as full-screen app mode, will give me more functionality, or enhanced finctionality, without in any way degrading existing functionality.

I expect a company such as Apple to be true to its reputation and to remain innovative and remain 'friendly' to the tech-savvy and to it's established customer base.

In this sense if Apple wants to introduce a full-screen app mode then that's OK with me PROVIDED the user can optionally elect to use it or not and can optionally elect to have other monitors rendered useless with grey linen or have the option to have other monitors remain useful and not be covered with grey linen.

Perhaps a "Full-screen app" preference where you can toggle "Full-screen app covers other monitors with grey linen - On/Off". Would this not satisfy both types of user?

KB from Ontario wrote:

jonaboff91 wrote:

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The fact that users actually don't 'expect' their additional screens to become useless when, e.g. watching a movie is apparently beside the point...

I really take exception to this statement as the expectation of enhanced, rather than degraded functionality is the point.

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Firstly, I hope you didn't think I meant it was beside my point; rather I think I should be able to watch my videos or have Mail or what ever full screen on one display while I work on the other. My comment was wholly sarcastic 😉

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Perhaps a "Full-screen app" preference where you can toggle "Full-screen app covers other monitors with grey linen - On/Off" thus being able to satisfy both types of users?

The problems with this approach are actually non-trivial for Apple, particularly when it claims its software is both intuitive and consistent. This solution would mean the behaviour is totally different with one screen to with multiple screens—not good for Apple. Also, there are unanswered questions such as what should happen to windows already on that screen? What should happen when you change space? What should happen when you three-finger-swipe over a full screen app? What about when there are full screen apps on more than one screen?

If we ever managed to get a suggestion to Apple, for it to have any hope of even being considered it would have to take account of these "problems".

NiqueXyZ wrote:

CT's responses are mostly troll posts

I see. Well, then, I guess CT got all those brownie points by posting the 101 link 1,902 times. D'oh!

Sarcasm understood... And my point about a preference toggle was somewhat tongue-in-cheek as well.

I think our conjecture about how difficult it might be for Apple to allow full-screen app mode to leave other monitors fully functional (not rendered useless by a grey linen background) is just that - conjecture. It seems to me if the goal of functionality is identified and embraced by Apple, then they can make it happen. I mean, look at all the other amazing things they've made these devices able to do. I'm sure much of that was non-trivial.

I hope Apple acknowledges that full-screen app mode is poorly impllemented and is effectively single-app mode. I hope Apple rectifies this so that we can make an app go "full screen" on one monitor and leave other monitors available for use - even for another app in full-screen mode.