z t wrote:
I can't believe almost a year onwards this problem still exists. I thought by now Lion would be safe to upgrade to as I assumed the bugs would be sorted out.
Its a funny thing really. About two weeks ago, as soon as I posted in this thread saying Apple doesn't listen to their customers if they don't agree with them. Right away some fanboy type replied Apple DO listen.
Then again, this problem existed for so long and people have been sending in requests to Apple ever since. What did Apple do about it? They don't agree with us, so they won't give us what we need. Plain and simple. People are saying this problem exists in Mountain Lion too. We are screwed.
I see Apple's dilema though. They have designed the full screening behaviour to use 'virtual desktops' (I'm new to Mac, but think it was called Spaces before) even while using a single display. If you think about it, when you are using 2 displays and you want to fullscreen, say, 5 apps, what will happen? 2 apps on your main display and 3 on the other? or all 4 on the other? Who gets to decide? And the REAL problem - all these 'screens' will be using so much memory that your Mac will surely become very slow; when Lion is already a resource hog and slower than SL.
This desperate need to turn OS X into iOS's cousin has made them design full screen method in a way where you can swipe left and right to switch apps, just like on a smartphone or tablet. That is fine when you are considering just one display because your MBP or MBA or Mac Mini can handle a few virtual desktops without problem. But when you add a second, most possibly a larger display, this virtual desktop business has to be tightly limited to make sure it still works fluidly on 4GB of RAM.
And there is your problem!
Knowing Apple, they rarely back away from a decision because it means they made a mistake. Which is what it is in this case. Therefore, its possible they are trying to figure out a way to do what we want without completely altering the current full screening behavior. I am doubtful that it can be done in any other way. The ONLY way to acheive this is by killing the swiping virtual desktops when a 2nd display is added, and simply letting you use just those 2 desktops on 2 displays.
Somehow they do not like that solution. But this is such a no brainer and not to mention that EVERY other OS does it! When they were busy designing the swipe-to-as-many-apps-you-like method, they simply didn't worry about secondary displays. Is it because ultimately they are going to do away with secondary displays unless you are on Mac Pro with multiple GPUs? And turn all Mac portables into anvanced iDevices? Scarily possible. Because there is no f'ing reason to black out one display when full screening on the other. No UI designer would do that even by mistake. Apple is up to something with this full screening business. Because they have effectively killed the conveninece of multiple displays on OS X. And they HAD to do that simply because of the swipeable apps feature they took from iOS.
Think hard people. We are not going to get it how we want. Thats all there is to it in the end.
It is interesting that this thread has brought to light a lot of anxiety beyond this single issue.
But, as someone who works "in the industry" (I work with 50+macs every day and 200+ Mac users); I will speak up to say this:
I too feel quite strongly that this issue is a symptom of a growing problem at Apple: They are crippling their computers with poor software design - specifically with UI design decision which are a slap-in-the-face to usability. Eliminating proper multi-monitor support can't possibly be an accident or a "bug" - someone at Apple truly feels that this is the way to go. It makes absolutely no sense, but not only Lion but other Apple products have suffered from this poor-UI and reduced-functionality recently. iPhoto comes to mind right away, with the new "full screen" mode which somehow Apple thinks we will not notice is actually no longer full-screen. It *was* full screen in many previous versions - and those versions also supported multiple screens to some extent (adjustment pallate could be moved to a second screen), but the latest iPhoto is essentially crippled, just as Lion is. There are many, many other objective rather than subjective problems that can be pointed to in recent Apple software redesigns - but Apple appears not to care.
Possibly the scariest thing of all however, is that I've yet to meet a single person in real life who actually likes Mac OS X Lion. I've had to revert dozens of computers to Snow Leopard because real-life users HATE Lion. One organization I work with has specifically decided that they will purchase no new Macs for now because they don't want to run Lion. They've replaced two failed machines with used equipment from a small local reseller becasue those machines could run Snow Leopard. I hear complaints every single day over and over about Lion and how difficult it is to use (and personally, I agree that it is much more difficult to use than Snow Leopard). Yes, I've read online that some people like Lion, but I am not exaggerating when I say that I've NEVER met such a person in real life. I also get the feeling that these "people who like Lion" would like absolutely anything from Apple, period. I just don't see much objectivity or honesty from that group. It's the little things that can make or break a product. In Apple's case, the single overwhelmingly most vital and important thing has always been not the underlying OS, but the UI: The user experience was always top-notch (well, there was that 7.5 era, in which one could not really tell how good the UI was because the computer crashed every few minutes. That was a dark time for sure). In one "update" they've managed to destroy almost completely the UI of their operating system and they do not seem to understand what they have done. Lion is, by any objective point of view, less consistant, less clear, less easy to use, and less capable than the OS which came before it. Now, when Windows finally, after years of failure, become good (Win7), is NOT the time for Apple to begin destroying their own UI. It's just nuts.
This whole Multiple-Monitor support suddenly vanishing is just one glaring example of something being very wrong in the Apple UI design division currently...
I think you could be a little more specific about exactly why you are condeming Lion to such an extent. I have come to live with the Dual Monitor full screen support . As it stands the only time I see this problem is when I switch to full screen mode screen sharing. When I want to use the second mac that is normally used as the second monitor, ( to set up my VM's or update my iPod... ) .
I use the Microsoft RDC remote viewer to connect to my PC and this goes into full screen perfectly on one monitor. I use VM Ware fusion which also ( even in the latest version so I believe ) does not use the native Lion full screen function, so also works correctly. So in my case where I only occaisionally have to use the 'blank sreen' full screen mode I find it quite easy to use cntl and arrow to switch between them.
I have to say it does make me wince a little whilst I am sitting there looking at a £1400 iMac dispplaying a black cloth , however fortunatly I have managed to more or less avoid the situation thus far. It's also worth pointing out that with the huge amount of resulution from a 27" iMac, full screening apps. like photoshop elements or itunes etc is not really a requirement or desire for me. What really concerns me is if at some point in the future my RDC or VMware is upgraded to 'support' the new Lion full screen mode.. who knows it might be time to head for Windows 8 by then LOL !
@WaldenGreen Thanks a lot for your input. We need someone like you to speak out about this to help the fanboys understand how bad the problem is. It is also a scary indication that Apple is now that thoughtless about their new designs. Your experience with so many Macs and so many Mac users makes you a one-man survey. People are hating Lion for all sorts of reasons.
@Simonp123456 You are not having a big problem right now because a lot of these app makers have updated their apps with their own full screen workaround. Apple's own apps are still blacking out other screens. Quicktime is so useless right now its beyond funny. How do you watch any iTunes store bought video without sacrificing your second screen?
This frustration is not all about fullscreen fiasco, its also about what it reveals about Apple. If they start making such disasterous design decisions, how long will it be until they conpletely destroy everything thats so great about Mac? All Mac forums these days are full of the term "workaround". VLC, MplayerX and many other apps now have their own fullscreen method to bypass OS X's native method. We are not having a big problem these days because these apps have adjusted to work as we like. When will Apple adjust to how customers like it?
I just sent the following to feedback per TheSmokeMonster's aformentioned link:
"Unable to open fullscreen Quicktime, after I have dragged it to secondary monitor and select full screen. QT window just reverts to main monitor.
I just added VLC and same reverting to main screen occurs when attempting full screen.
Although when using Safari or Chrome browser and wanting secondary monitor fullscreen ie: YouTube or other, then all I have to do is drag the browser page over to secondary monitor, select fullscreen in the video window and viola I get full screen on secondary monitor.
I have read that doing this with Quicktime (or maybe other players as well) worked in OSX's prior to lion."
Many thanks, please advise!
WaldenGreen is right, people must not expect a solution coming from Apple. I didn't read all 17 pages of this thread so I don't know if it got posted already but here's a glitchy but working solution (thanks to Tom Medley):
- Arrange the application windows you want to have on your second screen as you would like them. You will not be able to rearrange them once they are there.
- Completely quit the applications you wish to use on your second monitor, e.g. terminal, Chrome.
- Full screen your app
- Using the trackpad, swipe with three fingers a little bit, so that just the edge of the next space is visible (but it won’t switch when you let go)
- Keeping your fingers on the trackpad, hit cmd + space to open Spotlight and type in the name of the program you wish to launch on the second monitor
- Hit enter to launch the program, wait for the window to display, then you can take your fingers off the trackpad.
- Repeat steps 4-6 for any other apps you wish to launch!
This solution is far from perfect, but it works reliably so it’s a usable workaround until !@$%? actually fix this.
I recommend experimenting different scenarios keeping steps 456 in mind. Also, the VLC app works great for videos once configured! I know, I know... almost everyone knows that one but just in case...
This is not just about getting a window to display in fullscreen app mode in a second monitor while you have another one displayed. it's about the whole functionality of the fullscreen apps and being able to gesture through them just like an iPad.
Now having finally purchased my own iPad I came back to say that I want this to work with fullscreen apps more then ever.
I've already filed feedback.
To assume Apple is not concerned with customer satisfaction is not my experience. If Apple was the company some of you are refering to I probably wouldn't buy their products. But thankfully my own experience with Apple Care has been simply outstanding. They not only always solve my most pressing issues, they go above and beyond my expectations with their solutions.
Haters gonna hate.
Hey There Donebylee!
I am happy to tell you that I found a workaround!! After reading your complaint and being fustrated myself, someone mention VLC and it completely worked perfect!!! If you have VLC, do the following and as I type this I have a movie in fullscreen showing and my desktop running fine.
Go to VLC Preferences:
Click on Video
There you can set the default fullscreen monitor and and unclick Black out other monitors and BOOM, it works!
Hope this helps!