Q: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?

wow, thats interesting. Ive never tried that all-desktops option. Thanks a lot. Going to try that later for sure.

Hi all,

Have just sent the following on http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html. Like everyone else on this thread, I suspect, I've stopped hoping they will actually fix this, however. Over a year on, and not even an acknowledgement that this is a problem, we're obviously just using our Macs wrong...

When using an external display with my MacBook, full screen mode renders all but the primary display useless. This is most irritating when trying to watch movies (DVD or Quicktime) on my smaller MacBook display while continuing to work on my larger external display. It is not possible to achieve this in Lion using Apple software (while it was using previous versions of OS X, and remains to be using third party software which does not use Apple's broken fullscreen API).

 

The 2 scenarios where I find myself using full screen apps on my MacBook, when not connected to the external display, are for videos (for obvious reasons), and for applications such as Mail or Spotify which should remain open and easily accessible, while being out of the way. With one display both these usage scenarios are great, with the trackpad gestures leaving applications like Mail just a swipe away. However both video and out-of-the-way applications are broken with multiple monitors, where in both cases the logical design would be to have the primary monitor still available while having the full screen apps in view, or in easy reach on the secondary display. There is no logical sense whatsoever in having the grey linen texture blanking out all other available screens. As well as being a complete waste of screen space, it is also a complete waste of energy - these screens might as well be disconnected and turned off.

 

In OS X Lion, it seems that Apple has finally got around to implementing the full screen functionality that everyone so craved in Safari, functionality that has been present in other web browsers on all platforms since the advent of the GUI, but it has done so in such a way as to break functionality for all other Apple software. Instead of the over-engineered and inelegant integration of full screen with spaces, why didn't the Safari team simply add a decoration-less window mode to Safari, just like all other full screen Mac apps used to do, just like all other browsers for Mac still do, and just like full screen apps (HW-accelerated games excluded) on all other operating systems still do?

 

To make sure that I have set this totally in perspective, consider that flash video players on the web still work as expected, e.g. I can click the fullscreen button on YouTube and then continue working on a different display. You know there is a fundamental problem with your OS design, when a flash application embedded in a website provides better functionality that the native, bundled Apple applications! No wonder Apple hates Adobe so much, they're jealous!

This ins't the only curious 'feature' of Lion, either. I've been having some stability issues lately with my Mac, only to discover that it isn't possible to perform a Safe Boot with FileVault 2 enabled. The 'solution' (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4235) is to disable FV, wait for decryption, Safe Boot, then re-encrypt when you've finished... Crazy! That, along with the fact that all newly created user accounts, whether admin or not, strong passworded or not, are automatically able to unlock the FileVault, and the only way to fix this is to remove a user's password using the terminal, leads me to believe that FileVault 2, and much more of Lion with it, was rushed out without proper consideration and testing.

Just thought I'd chime in, I know my post will prob. get deleted and all but at least everyone subscribed to this will still get the email; ML is on DP3 right now, and the multi display behavior is still unchanged.

mjt1 wrote:

 

Dual-monitor control is one area where Lion is less functional than Snow Leopard.

Snow Leopard has no Full Screen mode.

Csound1 wrote:

 

Snow Leopard has no Full Screen mode.

No, it didn't. But that is not to say that full screen applications could not be written for it, either with full hardware acceleration as in most 3D games, or by using a full screen window with no decoration, as in previous versions of iTunes, QuickTime and any third party app that used full screen. This is the method that is still used in Firefox, Chrome, VLC, etc. which have all been recommended time and time again in this thread.

Many applications worked perfectly with full screen in Snow Leopard and earlier versions. But in Lion, Apple implemented the OS-wide full screen "feature" that makes all but the primary display completely useless for most applications. And the problem is that because the full screen API exists in Lion and Apple encourages developers to use it, applications no longer have the better, self-implemented fullscreen functionality that they always had in the past.

The worst part is that the sensible, borderless window method is the method most widely used in other operating systems because it is simple and works well, and this is the functionality that Apple should have been writing into its own software (read Safari, the only browser not to have full screen support pre-Lion...), but instead they wasted time and effort on the non-feature that is an OS-wide full screen API.

NiqueXyZ wrote:

 

Just thought I'd chime in, I know my post will prob. get deleted and all but at least everyone subscribed to this will still get the email; ML is on DP3 right now, and the multi display behavior is still unchanged.

I guess this doesn't surprise me. The more I look at this issue, the more I see that Snow Leopard was inching its way towards this behaviour. While poking about help in the Displays preferences, I came across the suggestion that folks using TVs connected to their Macs to watch DVDs should drag the menu bar onto the TV in the pane. If that and Front Row don't foreshadow Apple's hardwired thinking, I don't know what would. Like it or lump it, Apple seems to have decided that we are, indeed, in a post-PC future and that external monitors will go the way of the dodo. *sigh*

I've said it before, but I'll take this opportunity to moan again: I'm unhappy that I seem to have few choices. I can stay with Snow Leopard on this ageing, mid-2007 MacBook in order to get my money's worth out of the 600GB Intel Series 320 I put into it for my Xmas present or I can risk an upgrade and hack around with dragging menu bars, etc. The former leaves me at risk of running an unsupported OS. The latter leaves me at risk of spending money on an OS upgrade that proves to be too heavy for the GMA 950  + Parallels Desktop + Windows 7. (The latter is already scarily borderline on Snow Leopard, but we're making do.) The third option would be to buy a new MacBook Pro to go along with Lion/Mountain Lion, but that still seems to leave us with display issues, albeit faster ones.

Grrrr. When all your choices seem to be losing scenarios, it's not exactly pleasant.

I think the deeper problem is that Apple was a company that got these things so right, and Microsoft was the company that got these things so wrong. Now it is the other way around. Over 83,000 views on this topic alone. That is something you would want to release a patch for and update everyone ASAP. Instead they are silent. This is not good for the long term of the company. If this is the "new" Apple then I need to look elsewhere longer term.

This seriously frustrates me on a daily basis. I would really like to have Mail or Safari always running in full screen on my MBP screen and do my work on my second monitor. Not only are full screen apps aesthetically pleasing, but I wouldn't have to worry about other app's windows covering up whatever was in full-screen. Apple is seriously dissapointing me these days. First the the continuing Mobile Me/iCloud account migration disaster and now this full-screen fiasco (cleary a result of either arrogance or apathy).

Is Apple becoming too big to fail care?

Run "full screen" to loose the crome around the edge of Firefox.  Can't run grab to take a screen shot -- because you're not allowed to run more than one application at a time...   This is stupid.

Grrr.

Glennny2Lappies wrote:

 

Run "full screen" to loose the crome around the edge of Firefox.  Can't run grab to take a screen shot -- because you're not allowed to run more than one application at a time...   This is stupid.

 

Grrr.

Try Cmd-Shift-3 to take a screenshot and save as a file to your desktop.

Trane Francks wrote:

 

Try Cmd-Shift-3 to take a screenshot and save as a file to your desktop.

Then edit it with an external graphics editor program...

Or just use Grab and capture area (<cmd><shift>A) to copy the area of the screen I'm interested in.

Bottom line is Apple's full screen mode is broken and needs fixing.

I just tried this and it works fine for me, both using Grab and keyboard shortcuts. I can open Safari or Spotify fullscreen, then switch back to the Desktop and launch Grab (actually I can lauch these in either order).

Then, using Timed, Window and Selection modes in Grab I'm able to switch back to the fullscreen app to take a screenshot. (Window mode takes a shot of the whole screen.)

Also, if your goal is to only image part of the screen, do you know you can hit Cmd+Shift+4 instead of Cmd+Shift+3? This lets you capture a selection, or hit space to toggle capture window. (Esc to cancel).

Edit: After typing this I went and downloaded Firefox to test this, and found that Firefox doesn't actually use Lion fullscreen (there isn't the fullscreen button at the top right of the window, and when you go fullscreen any external displays you have don't become useless...), and so any issues you experience with fullscreen in Firefox are not down to Apple. Nevertheless, I was still able to take screenshots of it using Grab; I suspect that your dificulty came from the way you were attempting to launch Grab after switching to fullscreen in Firefox. Try launching Grab first, taking a Timed screenshot, then making Firefox fullscreen.

Glennny2Lappies wrote:

 

Trane Francks wrote:

 

Try Cmd-Shift-3 to take a screenshot and save as a file to your desktop.

 

Then edit it with an external graphics editor program...

 

Or just use Grab and capture area (<cmd><shift>A) to copy the area of the screen I'm interested in.

 

Bottom line is Apple's full screen mode is broken and needs fixing.

Wouldn't it be easier just to exit full screen for a scond to take a snap? You can also use LittleSnapper or Awesome Screenshot extension/plugin. They also snaps scrolling web page.

Apple, if you are reading this. This is how you solve it:

Right now Mission Control activates on both screen no matter where the mouse it. This is utterly stupid. Make it work independently on different monitors. That way we can choose and combine any desktop on 1st monitor with any desktop on the 2nd monitor.

Even if the user stretches an App to take up both monitors, leave it to the user to decide if he wants to see the whole app or wants one monitor to switch to another desktop for a while. This decision is NOT yours to make.

This is ALL we are asking for right now. I'll say it again:

***  Independent Mission Control on every monitor ***

Fullscreen Safari, Mail, iTunes or QT will no longer have to black out the other monitor if its done this way. 1st monitor can have 5 desktops and the 2nd can have just 1 or 10 or any number one needs.

I believe this can be done easily as an update to the MC app. Or by invoking multiple instances of MC for multiple monitors.

So just do it. Do it now!

samhaque wrote:

 

Apple, if you are reading this. This is how you solve it:

 

Right now Mission Control activates on both screen no matter where the mouse it. This is utterly stupid. Make it work independently on different monitors. That way we can choose and combine any desktop on 1st monitor with any desktop on the 2nd monitor.

 

(...)

I don't quite agree with this. I think that usually, people spread things out over multiple displays because they are all related and should all be seen together, not because the things are logically separate. That is how I work, anyway. And as you point out there would be endless confusion if, for example, Photoshop resides on one display but I have put one of its pallettes on another - what should happen if I change space on either one of the displays?

I do agree, however, that the fullscreen behaviour is broken and that the grey linen screen should not happen.

So perhaps fullscreen could function as follows: if there are two or more displays connected, the app goes fullscreen on the current screen only. The rest of the operating system then continues to function on the other displays as though the fullscreen display was no longer connected; as though, for example, I had closed the lid of my macbook and all the windows on it jump obediently to my expernal display.

I'm unsure how I would want it to work after that - for example should I be allowed to have more than one full screen app visible on separate displays at the same time, or should all subsequently full-screened (if that can be used as a verb) apps just go in front of the existing one, so that there is only one full screen display at a time and I could swipe through them on that one display? If I could have more than one full-screen display, how could I tell an app to go on one of the existing full screen displays when I hit the full screen button. Of course, they could be rearranged in Mission Control, but it would be nice if there was a way to open it on the right screen in the first place...

And I guess there could also be a keystroke, or trackpad gesture, for when the cursor is over the full screen app, to dim or power off the other displays (or display the dreaded linen!) - nice for example on the odd occasion when you really do just want to watch a movie, and the screen you want to turn off is the integrated screen of your iMac...