Q: Dual monitors and fullscreen fiasco, is there a work around?

I use CMD-TAB

I think you are right on target. Professional and enterprise users will use the software/hardware that suits their needs. Apple seems to have abdicated them to windows in favor of the consumer casual user new users. Yet Apple reportedly wants their business so it's very hard to understand the thinking.

Jerry Dalton1 wrote:

 

I use CMD-TAB

You don't use that to switch between running applications?

DOH you are rigtht I use OPTION-TAB not CMD-TAB. Thank you for the correction. This might be a good place to start a new discussion on the beast key combo for that action.

I'm sorry earlier I said I use CMD-TAB but that was wrong. DOH! i use OPTION-TAB for the menu pop function. On my MacBook Pros option is adjacent to CMD on the keys. It seems pretty efficient to use them that way. 

OK - we're already on page 34 of discussing Apple's idiotic multi-monitor support.  Now you want to bring up their idiotic cmd-tab vs opt-tab and hide vs minimize and not being able to just get to any window of any app form the keyboard?   Thank God for Witch so that cmd-tab / shift-cmd-tab works like it does in Windows and Linux - the right way!

If you want to cycle through windows, try []-[`] (command-grave, usually found to the left of z with the ~ above it). Adding shift cycles the other way.

Anything you want to change, you can. http://computerstore.psu.edu/consulting/os-x-tip-create-or-change-keyboard-short cuts-any-application

Yes, I know.  I meant cmd-` instead of opt-tab.  But, as I wrote, it's a stupid system in differentiating between windows of a program and different programs.  It just doesn't make sense.  And, again, it makes not sense that both of them only cycle between open or hidden windows but not minimized ones.  For a company that made such a big deal about its standards and usibility guidelines, at least half of trying to use OSX just from a keyboard is extremely inconsistent and in many ways unusable without add-on utilities like Witch.  Thus, it's great reviews and ratings even on the Mac App store.

unfrostedpoptart wrote:

 

Yes, I know.  I meant cmd-` instead of opt-tab.  But, as I wrote, it's a stupid system in differentiating between windows of a program and different programs.  It just doesn't make sense. 

Actually, from a US keyboard, the difference between Cmd-Tab and Cmd-` is just the tiniest reach different with one finger. For my use, it's not only sensible, but gets used to great effect. From a practical perspective, it's no different than Alt-Tab vs. Ctrl-Tab on Windows. It's just a matter of which digit you use differently. I also like show all app windows versus show all windows. *shrug* We're definitely in agreement about minimized windows effectively no longer existing, though. That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

On a danish keyboard that key is placed too far away to be handy. That's why I also had to resort to Witch. There are a ridicoulus amount of small annoyances in OSX - many of which can be fixed using 3rd party utilities though. Thanks to TotalSpaces, Divvy, Witch, TotalFinder, JiTouch, and ControllerMate (amongst others) it made OSX a liveable place.

Has anyone tried to discuss this in the developer forums? Since some of you have access to the developer preview you should also be able to post this issue there.

That's a good idea but the problem is it's not really a developer problem.

It's more of a 'trying to tell apple the way they designed their GUI is f'n stupid' issue.

The "solution" from a developer's standpoint is to do what VLC does -- implement their OWN full screen mode option and have a preference dialog where the user can pick which one they prefer.

The problem is making every single app do this on their own when an OS wide setting could be used to make things much easier.

And then of course, there's the biggest problem of all -- the Native apple made apps; they will NEVER act like VLC does because Apple 'doesn't believe in that kind of design' for whatever reason -- that honestly is the biggest gripe of all.

Well I think you can easily turn this into a developer problem. Consider a guy from Adobe who wants to test Photoshop in Fullscreen Mode and run lets say Dreamweaver (or whatever tool you use if your are a photography artist/programmer) next to it. Single Application Mode is going to prevent this. I can't stop wondering why no people from the content production industry tell Apple they are doing something wrong.

Another question: Has anyone come up with a reasonably good explanation for why they blank out the second monitor? I mean from a programmers point of view you need to do this on purpose. Maybe if we know why they do it, we might have better arguments.

Except that it ISN'T a developer issue, it's an ARCHITECTURE issue. Developers have no choice but to code according to the User Requirements Specification, Software Requirements Specification and Software Design Specification. (I'm using generic document terms here from my own time in software development, but I'm certain that Apple follows similar processes -- all large-scale development does.)

We know why they do it: The guys who architected the behaviour mimicked the virtual desktop paradigm as implemented on iOS. I fully expect that the architects of the design came from the iOS team and have little use for or experience with multiple monitors on extended desktops. The implementation, as we know, is woefully nearsighted and optimized for a MacBook Air that is not running an external monitor. Blanking out secondary monitors was done (obviously, IMO) on the premise that people don't multitask, they task switch. So, if your attention is on a full-screen movie on your external monitor, the light from your other monitor will be a distraction and should be dimmed. (We know that isn't the case, but bear with me here.)

From an Apple programmer's view, they're given a list of new Apple APIs for the release and told to use them. It's possible that the guys who wrote the Safari upgrades were horrified to see their baby blanking screens and moving to a new virtual desktop in the process. The problem is that when the Safari (or any internal) software development team is told to implement a feature using a certain OS X API call, that's it; that's all they can do.

So, sorry for the long-winded reply, but the only way anybody could hope that this changes is to convince Apple's OS X software architects that they really, really don't want OS X to copy iOS. Except that happens to be something that Apple now considers to be a Feature and a Good Thing (tm). My call: We're doomed.

I just migrated from Linux to mac as I need to do iPhone app development. External monitors work perfectly on Linux. I am not sure why this is so hard for developers at Apple?

If this issue is not resolved in next version, I will probably have to dual boot with Ubuntu.