Q: How to disable Versions completely

You can't disable it but you can manage it — i.e., delete all the version files that it keeps (and note, if you keep large files like the OP, you will want to do this, because Versions (unlike Autosave, which is not the same thing), keeps save full files like the original, so they will quickly eat up your HD).

See this tutorial for deleting versions:

http://applehelpwriter.com/2011/08/08/how-to-tame-versions/

^ double post

Perhaps we can just replace /.DocumentRevisions-V100 with a link to /dev/null ?

Have you tried that?

softwater wrote:

 

You can't disable it but you can manage it — i.e., delete all the version files that it keeps (and note, if you keep large files like the OP, you will want to do this, because Versions (unlike Autosave, which is not the same thing), keeps save full files like the original, so they will quickly eat up your HD).

It will be many, many years before Versions will eat up your hard drive.

See this tutorial for deleting versions:

 

http://applehelpwriter.com/2011/08/08/how-to-tame-versions/

That tutorial is dangerous and just awful. Do you have a link to MacDefender you would like to share too?

If you don't like Versions, don't use iWork, TextEdit, or Preview. There are plenty of alternatives.

That tutorial is dangerous and just awful. Do you have a link to MacDefender you would like to share too?

What rubbish is this? Macdefender is malware. The tutorial doesn't install anything on your computer. Anyone who knows even the basics of Mac OS can see that.

The tutorial tells you how to delete files you don't want to keep on your computer and isn't dangerous in any way whatsoever.

It will be many, many years before Versions will eat up your hard drive.

Don't write about what you don't understand.

Versions keeps full copies of your files, so if you've got very large files, it's going to eat up a lot of harddisk sapce.

In just two weeks with only 17 different files (i.e., minimal use), Versions has used up about 50MB on my hard drive. Not much, but look again in a few months times, files with graphics etc, and you'll see  a different picture. Don't confuse Versions with Autosave.

If you think there's a mis-step in the tutorial (which I doubt, because I've done it myself), then have the courtesy to explain rather than just throw out lies or misunderstandings.

softwater wrote:

 

What rubbish is this? Macdefender is malware.

 

The tutorial tells you how to delete files you don't want to keep on your computer and isn't dangerous in any way whatsoever.

The tutorial tells the user to enable the root user - a big security risk - and says to delete files owned by root. At least MacDefender runs as a normal user and can be easily deleted. The tutorial has the user remove that safeguard.

It will be many, many years before Versions will eat up your hard drive.

 

Don't write about what you don't understand. Versions keeps full copies of your files, so if you've got very large files, it's going to eat up a lot of harddisk sapce.

In just two weeks with only 17 different files, Version has used up about 50MB on my hard drive.

My hard drive is pretty full. I only have 50 GB available. If Versions used up 50 MB of space every two weeks, my hard drive would fill up in 38 years.

If you think there's a mis-step in the tutorial (which I doubt, because I've done it myself), then have the courtesy to explain rather than just throw out lies or misunderstandings.

I understand quite well. If you don't like Versions, don't use it. If you don't like the way Lion does things, don't use it. Don't post instructions that can lead unsuspecting people to damage their systems. There is no good reason to enable the root user. Anything that needs to be done and needs to be done as root should be done with the Terminal. Anyone who doesn't understand how to use the Terminal shouldn't be messing around with any of that stuff.

There is nothing wrong with not being a power user. If you don't understand something, don't mess with it. I know a great deal about MacOS X, but there are a number of areas where I know nothing. In those areas, I stay out because I know I would do nothing but damage.

Yes, I understand your philosophy quite well. There's nothing wrong with the tutorial; you just object to people knowing how to do it, to someone having the knowledge to control their own property.

Enabling the root user is a temporary measure to delete the files saved in Versions, if you wish to do this. If you don't, then you have no business in this thread.

I don't disagree that if you start messing about with your computer while root is enabled you could cause all sorts of trouble. But the tutorial doesn't tell or encourage people to do that. It tells them to enable root for a particular task, tells them how to accomplish that task, and then tells them to disable root.

If as you say, there is no good reason to enable root through the UI and it should only be done through Terminal, why is that functionality there? Apple seem to disagree with your moralising commands.

Your complaint suggests that you simply thing it is 'wrong' for people to even know how to enable root. Whose computer is it? That's the patronising philosophy beloved of IT workers who want owners to remain ignorant.

My philosophy is to educate people to enable them to make choices and do what they wish to do with their own property, clearly and safely.

If you paid for a computer with Preview and Textedit, or bought an app like iWork, it is up to the OWNER to decide — not you, and not Apple — what files are kept and what files are not kept on YOUR OWN hard disk.

If you don't agree with that, that's up to you. It begs the question, though, what you are doing in this thread given the OP's question.

Not at all. When you have a self-contained system such as Versions that maintains files and a database that indexes them, deleting some of the files will leave the database in an unexpected state. There is no way to know what will happen when Versions runs with the database in that unexpected state. Anyone who follows that tutorial puts their data at risk. Even if you try it right now just to prove me wrong, the next Lion update could break everything.

@Pondini — no, it doesn't only save the changes. It save the complete file, every time. Autosave (which occurs every 5 minutes or so) only saves the changes. Versions (which occurs automatically about every hour, or whenver you hit Cmd-S) saves the complete file.

Nonsense and obfuscation. 

It's a SQLite database that is similar to that used in Bookmarking in Firefox and other browsers. Deleting files is no more dangerous than deleting bookmarks in your browser.

As you said yourself, there are areas of OS you don't know anything about. Best think on that before your next reply.

Regards

softwater wrote:

 

@Pondini — no, it doesn't only save the changes. It save the complete file, every time. Autosave (which occurs every 5 minutes or so) only saves the changes.

No.  Autosave saves the changes in the current file. There's no extra space used at all.

From http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4753?viewlocale=en_US

"Auto Save

Apps developed with Auto Save such as Preview, iWork, and TextEdit can automatically save changes to your document as you work. Because Auto Save saves all changes in the background, you can work without the distraction of pauses or progress bars. Auto Save in OS X Lion adds the changes directly into the file so there’s only one copy of the document on your Mac."

Versions, however, normally saves only the changes hourly, or when you manually create a Version.   The exception is, on a small file, it will save the entire contents, as that makes more sense.

From the Versions section of the same article:

"OS X Lion saves only the information that has changed since the last version, making efficient use of space on your hard drive. OS X Lion manages the version history of a document, keeping hourly versions for a day, daily versions for a month, and weekly versions for all previous months."

Also see the ARS technical review here:  http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars which has more detail of the actual workings.

Do Firefox and other browsers run as root like the OS does? Do they have the capability, while running as root, to overwrite your current documents when you try to go to a bookmark whose underlying web server no longer exists?

All of those root permissions on the Versions folders is a big "KEEP OUT" sign from Apple. There is no way to know how robust Versions might be if the database points to files that you have deleted.

Do you also suggest enabling root and hacking up areas such as /System, /var, or /etc? At least that would be safer. It might render your system unbootable but it wouldn't put any of your personal documents at risk as would your suggestion.

No.  Autosave saves the changes in the current file. There's no extra space used at all.

Yes, that's what I said. Autosave only saves the changes.

Versions, however, normally saves only the changes hourly, or when you manually create a Version.   The exception is, on a small file, it will save the entire contents, as that makes more sense.

I'm not sure what the definition of a small file is. But if you look in .DocumentRevisions-V100, you'll find plenty of full backups for files over 1MB.

No need to believe me, but if you're working on files of various sizes, just go and have a look. You can decide for yourself whether the file is 'too small' or not.

My point is about data privacy. If you want to be sure that Versions isn't keeping something you thought no longer existed, you'd better go have a look at the tutorial I linked to earlier.

@etresoft

Your replies indicate clearly that you don't know what you're talking about, nor do you have an answer to the OP's question.

I've made my case based on facts, and you've made yours based on a philosophy of fear rather than knowledge of how either OS Lion or Versions work.

People can make their own minds up from our exchanges. I'm done here.