How do I uninstall Lion

Geestig wrote:

Micah D, I don't know what your grudge is with Pro users, but your monologue about how great Lion is...

My grudge is not with pro users per se, it's with people who expect a successful consumer oriented company to cater to their own highly specialized professional needs, particularly whith the completely unreasonable expectation that the company in question develop it's own software to act as a support system for third party software they themselves are not responsible for supporting! To wit, your statement that:

"...this OS is bug-ridden for anyone working in Adobe software..."

I'm sorry but isn't that a problem with ADOBE, not Lion? Why should OS X be expected to act as a support system for Adobe software? And even if you're going to argue that Apple should develop wtih Adobe in mind, hasn't the split between Jobs and Adobe been mae *perfectly* clear over the past few years?

Furthermore Adobe, as a 3rd party software provider, requires an operating environement... they don't provide OS software, so they have to rely on and be prepared for the changes to the OS's they want to function with... so if Adobe wants their software to work on Apple's platforms that's for ADOBE to fix, not apple!

Developers at Adobe almost certainly had advance developer versions of Lion in their hands for a long time before it was released, yet they clearly chose to not update their creative suites to play nice with lion... so are you on the Adobe forums complaining about their failure to anticipate and prepare for the biggest upgrade to OSX in years? It would be a FAR better and more accurate use of you and other "pro user" complaint power IMO.

It's axiomatic of operating systems that they are developed to run the hardware they serve, not 3rd party software. It's the responsibility of 3rd party developers to update their software for the new OS, not the OS developer to downgrade their development to support previous versions of 3rd party software. So don't blame Apple because Adobe is slow to update their programs.

And the only "factual" information I need to prove that Lion works fine for me is the fact that it works fine for me, I've had one problem, everything else has been smooth sailing. I won't bother with links to this or that, it's the internet, a link to a story supporting your POV means nothing as there's *always* someone who feels the way you do.

I have not read the whole argument here however, I would say that whilst Lion, is a low-point for OS/X from a "Traditional" users point of view, it is not necessarily bug ridden (That said, 10.x.3 is usually the point that Apple gets it right - previous versions are really public betas).

The problem here is that Apple has changed markets and does not give a rats-arse about their Traditional "Professional" User base - Look at FCP for example. This is not where Apple's future is, they are now a Consumer Mobile Devices Company and will focus on whatever "Candy" will suit there new base of consumers.

If you are a professional user, for one, you are crazy to move to a new OS for production until a few months after release (10.x.3 or later or in the Windows world after a few security patches and other patches for example). Bugs will always happen. Secondly, I would really consider long term if OS/X is going to be the best platform for you going forward. There is nothing in 10.7 for the pro-user. 10.6 (or 10.5) for that matter are good enough. All the new functionallity is really around consumer user interfaces, consumer cloud services, and consumable apps, via the App Store.

I would seriously recommend revisiting Windows 7 today as it is a rock solid OS built with the Professional User in mind (Windows "8" will have the new consumer UI according to the press). The reason I say this is that Microsoft make their living off servicing Professionals with quality Software - Apple now just want to sell more devices - This means more IOS Devices since that is where the money is.

I know this will offend some Apple Fanbois out there who believe in Every thing Jobs and hate everything Gates but the reality is Apple make great devices, Microsoft, make great software.

I love running windows 7 and OSX on my MBA I have the best of both worlds

@sfoster_au: Some of the best, most level-headed input in this entire thread IMO.

You're exactly correct: Apple has changed markets and is no longer concerning themselves with pleasing a very vocal minority of so-called "power users"... with the tremendous success and consequent profits realized as a result of the iPhone and iPad Apple has clearly realized they have an opportunity here to catapult themselves into millions of previously Windows-centric households... millions of average "every day" consumers are now familiar with Apple based solely on the iPhone and iPad, so Apple is (smartly) capitalizing on that by bringing their desktop computer OS more in line with the iOS experience, thereby encouraging people to make their next computer an Apple because "Hey, the iPhone is awesome I wonder what the iMac is like...."

The times they are a-changin'... but the good news is that Lion will be just fine for pro users too, once Adobe and other companies update their software (as they should have before Lion was even released) to play nice with the new OS.

And you make another great point... if you 100% rely on your computer for your business and it's working well IMO only a crazy person would instantly upgrade to a massively new and rebuilt OS on the day it's released... or the week or month for that matter.... and certainly NEVER EVER without a complete backup... and by "a" I mean at least TWO complete backups. And even then... only one computer gets the upgrade, see how it works, figure out the bugs THEN roll it out to the rest of the computers in the studio.

Personally if I were a design professional (I'm not) and I had a functional workflow for my business on Snow Leopard you couldn't get me to upgrade to Lion out-of-the-gate for anything... I'd wait until version 10.x.1 at the very least, not to mention waiting to see the inevitable compatibility reports for major important software I use... like Adobe for instance....

I agree as well, I would never move to a new OS without it being proven. However we needed a new machine and when the new iMac did arrive with Lion preinstalled and no media and no way to revert to Snow Leopard it caused a problem for us. THUS the entire reason for my rant!

If Apple had provided a clear and easy path for me to downgrade to Snow Leopard I would have most likely not had the issues I had and replying to this post.

To Adobe's defence, their apps have some significant source code, and the testing required pre-release would be substantial. Further, Lion's source code only became stable in June (there were a lot of moving parts before then) and that fact Lion was released Mid July and it is now early September and we are talking about 10.7.2 and 10.7.3 I expect there still will be many moving parts especially around the new UI. Hard for another vendor to keep up with.

This is the same in the windows world. Vendors wait for the OS to be stable for the most part however, the "Light House" apps are ported early and Microsoft I believe has large teams that work with third party vendors to help make this happen. I don't think apple does.

Apple does need to be careful around dependancy on the iOS experience as well. Not much has changed in Two years with iOS whereas Android and WP7 are catching up at the rate of knots. It will be very interesting to see what happens over the next twelve months in the battle between Apple, Google-Motorola and Microsoft-Nokia.

I believe it is because of this pending battle, that apple has moved ALL of its attention to the consumer experience.

jakekub wrote:

I agree as well, I would never move to a new OS without it being proven. However we needed a new machine and when the new iMac did arrive with Lion preinstalled and no media and no way to revert to Snow Leopard it caused a problem for us. THUS the entire reason for my rant!

If Apple had provided a clear and easy path for me to downgrade to Snow Leopard I would have most likely not had the issues I had and replying to this post.

I can understand your frustration at the stiuation, but again I don't see how you can blame any of that on Apple. The ability to downgrade to a previous operating system is in the hands of you, the consumer, not Apple. Apple has no interest, and in fact as an active disinterest, in consumers downgrading their systems, so there's no way you can reasonably expect Apple to provide you with downgrade paths. They want *everyone* to run the new OS because that's where all their development time, money and support is at... and if Adobe doesn't play nice with Lion again... that's Adobe's fault, not Apple.

And the lack of media with the new system is also a non-factor... even if there had been a full set of Lion discs that wouldn't have provided any path for downgrading to snow leopard... if you have SL discs that's your answer, just wipe the drive on the new machine and install Snow Leopard, problem solved right?

Apple sells new computers with the newest OS, I don't see any reason the onus of a downgrade path should be on them. It's your responsibility as a consumer to verify that the products you buy will support your needs.... if you had researched compatibility issues before buying the new computer you might have been alerted to the fact that Adobe was going to be an issue and purchased SL discs so that as soon as you got the new computer you could revert it to the previous OS.

I would seriously recommend revisiting Windows 7...

As it happens, I installed Windows the other day for the first time in my life. I did it because I had made the mistake of buying an SSD from a vendor who only provides firmware updates that require Windows. So I downloaded a trial version of Windows 7 Ultimate, burned a disc, and installed on a spare hard drive in my Mac Pro, intending to use it only once and then delete it.

I've been hearing a lot about how much Windows has improved in recent years, so I thought the experience would be at least tolerable. In fact, I was dumbfounded at how ugly, cheap-looking, and amateurish Windows is. The interface was so repulsive, I could hardly bear to look at the screen. I suppose that if you use Windows day in and day out, you either become insensitive to it or lose your sanity (if there's a difference.) It would not install on an external drive. If I moved the internal drive to a different bay, it wouldn't boot. Utter garbage.

The firmware updater didn't work, apparently because you have to change some BIOS setting to use it. So I wasted my time.

...Microsoft make their living off servicing Professionals with quality Software...

No, Microsoft makes a living by subsidizing the creation of a huge corps of IT managers who have no marketable skills except Windows management, and who therefore have a vested interest in keeping their organizations on the Microsoft platform.

Proves my point, Apple is all about consumers and price points. Removing the USB stub and FORCING 10.7 down peoples throats is a extremely arrogant decision. Saves Apple $1 or so but forces you to consume download allocation. (In australia we still have download caps).

Personally, I doubt whether Apple even has device drivers for pre-Lion releases of the OS for their new MBA's and Mac Mini. (I don't know as I have not looked).

Going back to my first Post, for Pro-Users, now is the time to reconsider the platform going forward. Pro-Users are no-longer in Apple's spotlight and I feel it will only get worse for you, not better as the consumer battle heats up over the next two years.

The answer for you may be to stay with Apple and put up with these issues, or to replatform. Only you will know the answer to that. But don't expect Apple to change back to what they where 5 years ago, They have even changed their business name since then!

"...this OS is bug-ridden for anyone working in Adobe software..."

I'm sorry but isn't that a problem with ADOBE, not Lion? Why should OS X be expected to act as a support system for Adobe software? And even if you're going to argue that Apple should develop wtih Adobe in mind, hasn't the split between Jobs and Adobe been mae *perfectly* clear over the past few years?

I'm sensing this discussion could run for a long time as it seems like you're in it to debate instead of getting a point across to potential new Lion users.

As for above quote, I don't care who's at fault because I'm not interested in blaming anyone. I am simply trying to get my work done, and the fact is that Adobe CS4 running on Lion is not working all that well, so I come here and advice others with a similar work set-up to wait before they upgrade.

As for unwisely upgrading to the first version of the OS, our specific work-envoirenment benefits greatly from sharing through airdrop, so we as a collective upgraded to Lion. Some have gone back to SL, others are more forgiving.

Linc Davis wrote:

...Microsoft make their living off servicing Professionals with quality Software...

No, Microsoft makes a living by subsidizing the creation of a huge corps of IT managers who have no marketable skills except Windows management, and who therefore have a vested interest in keeping their organizations on the Microsoft platform.

😉😉😉

That's the truth.

And don't forget about the legions of gamers who only use windows as a platform to launch their epic 3 day Halo battles so don't care what it looks like or how well it works for real life computing.

Beg to differ, the firmware issue is with the hardware vendor, not Microsoft. As for the UI that is a matter of taste whilst I agree, it could be cleaner, a lot has to do with supporting legacy applications in the enterprise.

I would wait for Windows 8 to see where things head on the UI space for consumers.

As for your hardware experience, you get what you pay for.. Go to www.macsales.com for OS/X compatible Hardware.

As for your comment on IT managers, these guys manage Infrastructure, Not Apps. The Apps determine the platform and infrastructure.

.NET is the best framework around at present for scalable Multi-Tier Apps both locally hosted and in the cloud, **** even Apple Use it for their back end services.

http://www.infiniteapple.net/apple-icloud-azure-use-tested-confirmed/

whilst your choice of UI is personal and to be respected, I would not blame Microsoft for your hardware troubles either.

Great points, all, but I have to add that one should have their head examined if they believe moving to Windows (any version) is a better idea. OS X is what originally drew me to the Mac platform, Windows XP is what made me leave Windows. If anyone thinks the grass is greener in Microsoft's pasture, think again, or just ask someone who supports these things professionally. Lion was an item that was an elected install. Wait until a piece of mal-ware destroys a user profile, hides all of your files, hijacks your browser. These are things that happen just by going online. Doesn't matter if Windows 7 is 32-bit or 64-bit, or if the user is running as an admin or not. Where I work, we have Windows 7 x64 and no one runs as an admin. That still hasn't stemmed the mal-ware problems. Going Windows means you need to get an anti-virus software and become a mild security expert. Most folks I know just want to use their computers and not fix them.

~Disgruntled IT veteran.

malware exists on All platforms. It is more prevailant on Windows due to the size of the install base.

i would recommend antivirus for both osx and windows. Oh and stop your users surfing for **** at lunch 🙂

Agreed, but I have never, in ten years, had to remove a virus from a Mac. Apple's day is coming as it's popularity rises, but right, you're safer on the Mac. It is the house rules, where I work, that all computers run A/V, both PC and Mac.

I tried to put the Snow Leopard disc in my computer, which is new with Lion, and not my first Apple Computer! It did not work! I Booted from the SL Disc and it never got that far, but a gray screen and a low beep. That was it!