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  • mulligans missus Level 2 Level 2 (370 points)

    iPotential wrote:

     

    mulligan - i also run Macs with both operating systems and totally agree with DaveSpencer.

     

    There is no reason why we can't have MC/Expose/Spaces as options.

     

    Then why were they not implemented in the new system?

     

    Apple do make course corrections - and will sometimes go back to a past if it turns out that it was better than the future for some users.

     

    Just trying to think of one that would be as big a turnaround though.

     

    I realise that the argument here is about %'s, however if you keep upsetting a small percentage of your customer base you might soon end up alienating all of them over time.

     

    They are catering for the needs of the majority buying their products. What are their products aimed at? Mobile computing. iPhones, iPads, iCloud etc. Their sales figures speak for themselves and millions of young people around the world are waiting for the next updated devices. That is why Windows, Google, Samsung, Nokia and co. are following the same path. That is what the consumer wants. It may not be exactly what you and I want, but thats not where the future obviouly lies if we want to be dependant on obsolete features.

     

    What do you love about Mac (and/or made you switch to Mac)?  What happens if those features are only valued by a small percentage of users and are dropped unnecessarily into the future...

    I have used Macs for about thirteen years and have never had an issue moving along with their system directions. Now third party programs, that's where the key lies. I have been heavily reliant on Adobe and Corel, but I suppose if push came to shove, then I would find an alternative, but they have always come through with the goods.

     

     

    mulligan - i also run Macs with both operating systems and totally agree with DaveSpencer.

     

    And I respect your opinion. We all have one. They are just not the same. It doesn't mean I am not going to have Mac problems somewhere along the line. None of us are bullet-proof.

     

    Anyhow, we'll never solve it here.

     

    So Happy Computing and I hope things fall into place for you.

     

    Cheers

  • iPotential Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    mulligans missus wrote:

     

    Just trying to think of one that would be as big a turnaround though.

     

    The function of the rotate/mute switch on iPads - just to name one.

  • DanAtWork Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I couldn't agree more. Special thanks to Stefanos Folios, above, for explaining the problem so clearly and in such a reasonable tone.

     

    As for those who have said, "Just go back to Snow Leopard, haters," I think you're missing the point. A lot of the new features of Lion are great, and we want to be able to take advantage of those -- just not at the expense of losing an elegant workflow tool.

     

    When Spaces first came out, I didn't see how they would be any more useful than Expose, but I gave them a try. I quickly discovered how beautifully designed the new system was, and I ended up using nine Spaces and enjoying a MASSIVE productivity boost. I came to Mission Control with the same attitude: "I don't know how they could possibly improve on Spaces, but I'll test this out. Maybe I'll like it even better."

     

    Unfortunately, I don't like it better. It's a big step backward, for the reasons Stefanos Folios explained so well.

     

    Maybe Apple didn't realize how many people would miss Spaces. It would be great if they could bring back a way to use them. When Spaces came out, Expose didn't disappear -- you just had a new choice. I wish Apple would have done it the same way this time.

  • VoilaMagic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I agree with the above posts and, similar to DanatWork, I didn't realize how much I would rely on Spaces until I began developing with them. Now that I'm use to working with them, I feel as though something is missing when the Mission Control was introduced.

     

    I did a little research and found a way to configure SPACES in Lion. I am able to flip left and right through desktop spaces. I'd love to flip up, down, left, right and use SPACES as the traditional OSX spaces was in Leopard.

     

    The following link shows how to set up "Desktops" ( really "spaces" ) in Mission Control.

     

    There are three main aspects of Snow Leopard’s Spaces behaviour that I use frequently:

    1. Creating multiple Spaces (four, in my case) for various purposes.
    2. Assigning certain apps to always open on a specified Space (and certain other apps to open on all Spaces).
    3. Switching directly to a given Space using a keyboard shortcut.

    All of this functionality remains available on Lion, but some of the settings have changed location. Let’s deal with the above points in order.

    Creating multiple Spaces

    On Lion, Spaces tend to instead be called Desktops, but I’ll continue to use the term Spaces in this article. To make more, enter Mission Control and hover your mouse over the top-right of the screen (or hold the option/alt key). You’ll see a “+” button, and you can click it to create a new Space.

    Adding new Spaces in Mission Control

    You can also hover over any Space you’ve created (or again hold the option/alt key) to see a delete button, which you can use to delete that Space. You can only delete Spaces you’ve manually created.

    Assigning apps to Spaces

    Somewhat unusually, on Lion you assign apps to Spaces using the Dock. First, switch to the Space you want to assign an app to. Make sure the app is either running (and thus visible in the Dock) or has been added to the Dock. Then, right-click on its Dock icon and choose the “Options” submenu. You’ll see an “Assign To” section, where you can pin this app to either the current desktop (Space) or to all desktops.

    Assigning apps to Spaces via the Dock

    The “None” option means that the app will simply open on whatever the current Space is when it’s launched.

    Keyboard shortcuts for switching Spaces

    You can still switch directly to a specific Space using the keyboard, but the setting is now in the Keyboard pane in System Preferences. Open that preference pane, then select “Mission Control” from the list in the “Keyboard Shortcuts” tab.

    Keyboard shortcuts for switching Spaces

    You can choose shortcuts for switching left and right by one Space, and for going directly to a specific numbered Space.

    Hopefully these tips will make Lion’s implementation of multiple desktops a little more familiar.

     

     

    http://mattgemmell.com/2011/07/27/using-spaces-on-os-x-lion/

    _________+________-____________________

     

    This helps somewhat. I really hope the real "spaces" returns as this is not the same and is very light and I'm a power user.

  • dory18 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The old Spaces grid system allowed me to do things I thought were impossible on a computer.  I have been able to write scientific research papers without printing out a single source document to paper.  I saved pdf versions of the many source papers.  I read them on the computer, highlighting them as needed while adding notes in key spots.  I arranged the various papers in different "spaces" in a 3 x 3 grid according to their position on the topic I was discussing.  The ability to view these documents in a grid format allowed me to easily navigate between different papers.

     

    The new version of "spaces" makes the above described workflow impossible.  Spaces are replaced by desktops, which are only viewable in a linear ribbon.  The previews of these desktops are too small to be useful; the contents of these desktop previews do not allow me to see the generalized window layout within the desktop.  The desktop previews are indistinguishable from each other when there are more than a few windows.  Also gone is the ability (from expose) to reduce the size of all windows within all spaces so I can view all windows at once.

     

    It would seem easy to me to return this functionality as a switchable option.  Just add an option to view desktops as a grid.  When this option is activated, the mission control option would do as expose used to do and miniaturize the windows, allowing me to drag windows from desktop to desktop.  Otherwise, the mission control option would function as always, with a ribbon.  Thus, only by turning this option on would anything change. 

  • VoilaMagic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The grid and swiping to 9 spaces is what i truly admired about the mac. The post above this really shows all of the reasons why spaces needs to return. I set up this desktop version of spaces and I agree, it's difficult to switch and see the spaces... It's more than 3 clicks for me.

  • leivajewelry Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Very well stated Dory18.

    I agree completly. My workflow has come to a halt without the old Spaces grid system. I'm truly dissappointed with apple for this oversight and can not imagine how they thought this was an improvement- I can't see anything because it's either so tiny or overlapping!!

    PLEASE bring back the old Spaces!!!!!

  • mulligans missus Level 2 Level 2 (370 points)

    leivajewelry wrote:

     

    I'm truly dissappointed with apple for this oversight and can not imagine how they thought this was an improvement- I can't see anything because it's either so tiny or overlapping!!

    PLEASE bring back the old Spaces!!!!!

    It's not an oversight, it was changed in Lion. Despite some people not liking it, well get used to it. People are still moaning about changes from Leopard to Snow Leopard if you look at those forums. A new OS will never please everybody, which is why Apple inform you of the changes on the download sight so you can make an informed decision of wether you need to upgrade or not. You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. UI elements will never please everyone. A lot love and use Dashboard. For other like me, it's cumbersome eye candy. Whereas I use Mission Control all the time and prefer it's ease of use over spaces. That's the life in Computing for ya!

     

    Good Luck

  • VoilaMagic Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Most of your post, I agree with, there is, however, one sentence in which I totally disagree. This is no where near an argument of any kind and I'm typing on a new Macbook Pro. The best Macbook Pro that I've ever used...

     

     

    "You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. "

     

     

    This is so incorrect, for my particular Macbook Pro. The choice to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard was not my choice.

     

    The updates Apple sent to my macbook pro prepared the computer for the new Operating System. With every update they recommended, software, OS speed, etcetera, began disrupting and disabling third-party applications, such as Adobe Creative Suites. With my first Macbook Pro, a late 15" 2008 model, the updates and configuration files that Apple sent to that laptop made that laptop unstable, especially when Lion was released. Apple prepared the laptop so well that Snow Leopard conflicted with itself and degraded the quality of work I was able to conduct on that machine. There was no choice for that machine's OS. Apple forced the new OS and I finally had to give in and upgrade to Lion, on that machine.

     

    I did not apply certain updates on a new iMac 27 running Snow Leopard and it is great. The 2008 Macbook Pro was replaced with a brand new Macbook Pro with the new OS already installed.

     

    For the iMac 27, I'm waiting for major OS updates before I DECIDE to upgrade. The only reason I have the ability to Choose the new OS is because I am not installing certain updates, which can leave that machine vulnerable in the future as I'm sure they won't support it anylonger.

     

    I just had to share this, maybe someone out there is on the fence about the updates that are being sent to them. If you are staying with a Pre-Lion OS, don't install updates that "make it easier for one OS to communicate with another OS"...

     

    The calendar system is screwy, now that the Cloud system is in place, however, that's another topic.

     

    With Peace ! and the common admiration for the Apple universe.

  • mulligans missus Level 2 Level 2 (370 points)

    VoilaMagic wrote:

     

    Most of your post, I agree with, there is, however, one sentence in which I totally disagree. This is no where near an argument of any kind and I'm typing on a new Macbook Pro. The best Macbook Pro that I've ever used...

     

     

    "You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. "

     

     

    This is so incorrect, for my particular Macbook Pro. The choice to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard was not my choice.

     

     

    I know what you are saying, and agree with the point that if you buy a new Mac, you will have Lion installed on it and cannot revert to Snow Leopard. If you are used to Snow Leopard and want the option to change back, then you would need to buy a near new machine from eBay or a retailer with older stock. Of course buying second hand leaves you perhaps with limited warrenty or having to buy Applecare ($$$$$). I would assume that in 12 months though that so many people will have forgotten Spaces and all the new users never even saw it anyway and entered the market at Lion, which may be well more advanced by then, or redundant. Who can tell these days?

     

    You are right, I overlooked those updating their machines, but I suppose now that many many more should be aware of commiting themselves to Lion by upgrading their computers.

     

    Cheers

  • wavefiles Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Same here: workflow is killed with mission control, a macpro used for serious work can´t run on a tablet interface.

    I guess sometimes evolution of software runs over you like a truck driven by a drunk driver...

  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8 (40,740 points)

    iPotential wrote:

     

    mulligans missus wrote:

     

    Just trying to think of one that would be as big a turnaround though.

     

    The function of the rotate/mute switch on iPads - just to name one.

    That's the only one I've ever seen anyone mention. Perhaps because it is the only one.

  • iPotential Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Barney-15E wrote:

     

    iPotential wrote:

     

    mulligans missus wrote:

     

    Just trying to think of one that would be as big a turnaround though.

     

    The function of the rotate/mute switch on iPads - just to name one.

    That's the only one I've ever seen anyone mention. Perhaps because it is the only one.

     

    Reintroducing Final Cut 7 after trying to replace it with Final Cut Pro X...

  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8 (40,740 points)

    Hey, we're up to two, now. Good work.

  • RobBT Level 1 Level 1 (75 points)

    Barney-15E wrote:

     

    Hey, we're up to two, now. Good work.

    Well, if it's a serious try... here's one more, nothing important like FC7, but still...

     

    At 0:39 in this movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybF05otqErc Steve Jobs says that returning to an iPod Shuffle with buttons (after the bare iPod Shuffle 3rd Gen) is because the user likes it that way. He either made that up, or Apple really have listened to their customers.

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