Previous 1 6 7 8 9 10 Next 270 Replies Latest reply: Oct 27, 2013 10:01 AM by Csound1 Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • Andy Drefs Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    MY obvious point?  Oh please! I was simply responding to the belabored badgering of "it was in the agreement, so get over it", or the "you don't work for iWork so what's your complaint?" or my favorite "this is the way it is so deal with it!".  If that were indeed the case then why even bother with a discusssion board at all?  If we are to just grin and bear it, no matter what they do, then we are all wasting our breath.  But thanks (yet again) for the fatherly lecture. I also think it is quite telling that there have been well over 4,000 views of this topic, obviously there are a tremendous number of people that have been affected.

  • Grinner0 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I can't comment on the difficulties of using Lion without a 'save as' command.  I was going to upgrade to Lion this weekend but now I won't.  I'll wait until Apple reinstates 'save as' or until someone comes up with a satisfactory work around or app that replaces it. It is one of my most used commands and I am unwilling to do without it.

     

    Grinner0

    U.S.A.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    I guess that you will have to wait for looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

    The just released iBooks Author behave exactly as iWork applications

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 19 janvier 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

    My iDisk is : http://public.me.com/koenigyvan

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (32,840 points)

    Yes Yvan, and that iBooks Author only works in Lion.

     

    We are progressively being pushed over the edge.

     

    But not to worry! Apple might, or might not, get around to installing the net to catch you below.

     

    Peter

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

     

    Yes Yvan, and that iBooks Author only works in Lion.

    What were you hoping.

    I know somebody which told me that I was probably wrong when I said that from my point of view the next iWork will drop PPC.

    I was clearly right.

    But don't worry, less than one hour after iBooks Author, I filed a bug report about it.

    We are progressively being pushed over the edge.

    I'm pushed nowhere.

    It seems that iBooks Author match my needs to build a catalog of my workshop production.

    I'm just a bit bored to see that it's build upon the Pages code so it doesn't benefit of some features introduced by … Snow Leopard

    But not to worry! Apple might, or might not, get around to installing the net to catch you below.

    There is no need for Apple to do that.

    In France it's already difficult to achieve several important tasks without Internet.

    We have even public structures whose communication is made thru Facebook which is really odd.

    As long as I may work with Apple products without M…oSoft and FaceBook, it's OK.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 20 janvier 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

    My iDisk is : http://public.me.com/koenigyvan

  • get2 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I agree with deloyd. The new "duplicate, save a version & export" add too many steps to perform a simple "save as".  I frequently edit a previous document to save as a new version for the next month. The new "feature" was not designed for business people who take advantage of the previous work they've done to make life easier.  It does not work for business use.  If this is not going to be corrected, I will switch back to Microsoft, a change I never thought I'd opt for.  I hope a definitve answer comes forth soon.  If Apple refuses to put "Save As" back in as an option, I'd like to switch sooner rather than later.   I'd rather do this than all the clicks currently required to save a  document with a few changes and a new name.

  • get2 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Some people don't understand the purpose of the discussion board, and take the harsh comments personally. It IS a forum to voice what we like and don't like about their products. It helps to include the reasons why things don't work for you. This gives other people considering a purchase the opportunity to find out the product is likely to work for them, or if there are problems they can't accept before making a choice. It also gives Apple a chance to see how the market responds to their "work" so they can develop products and fixes to suit our needs.  After all, WE are their customer.  It's not in their best interest to dictate how we work if it is going to push us to buy something else.  We always have other choices.

     

    When it doesn't work for us, it is in all of our best interests to state it clearly so Apple can consider how we actually use their products.  This is the easiest way for Apple find out what works and what doesn't.

  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (15,120 points)

    How did you acquire PAges? As standalone from Mac App Store? or through the iWork bundle?

  • Dave-the-Rave Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Apple have a direct feeback channel via...  http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

    You won't get the satisfaction of a reply but the more we use it the better the chance of a change.

  • Kees de Wit Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)

    I personally do derive some hope from the fact that preciously little third party Mac apps seem to be embracing Apple's malfunctioning approach to auto saving.

     

    The design requires users to anticipate mistakes. If you do some wrong, and didn't duplicate before you even made the mistake, there is no simple, " wait, I didn't want that, Don't save"

    Now you have to go through the clunkiness that is versions.

     

    That fact that version information is not saved when the file is on a file server (Lion server, no less!) yet autosave continues to happily destroy your file with no way back but a time machine backup is even more ridiculous.

     

    I have had to help more users losing data in documents since the introduction of Lion at our works place than in all the time before it, and even after using Lion for a long time now, I've yet to hear from anyone that thinks duplicate, close original (darn did I already make unwanted edits?) save...( aka save as....) is in anyway better.

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (32,840 points)

    Kees

     

    You have summed up the situation well.

     

    Apple is tacking on a few more stars for the brochure, has consulted the astrologers in marketing and is full steam ahead to give the new awestruck shipmates a closer viewer of the rocks off Sardinia.

     

    You really have to laugh at those seasoned passengers who seem to to think avoiding long charted submerged objects and old fashioned seamanship are still important.

     

    "Oh look! Pretty fairy lights!"

     

    Peter

  • Sagittal Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I completely agree; it's simply a waste of time.  I think the development team just tried too hard with Lion in a lot of respects I think (though I understand no one would pay for it if it was the same thing as Snow Leopard):   i.e.  Locking documents I haven't used in a while, "Save As..." replaced with multi-step program, "natural" scrolling (nothing natural about inverting what was already second nature to me).

     

    Don't get me wrong I don't want to stand in the way of progress I just found some changes annoying.

     

    I'm a college student. My dad bought Pages; I think it's just as good as Microsoft Office (if not simpler), but I just can't turn in a paper or even mail it too myself in Gmail and open it somewhere else to print unless I change it to a ".doc" file.  I don't want to save all my papers on my HD that way though -- it takes longer to open, and I have to review even changes/errors in formatting.  So when I used to write a paper (in OSX 6.5) I initially saved a file I create as a ".pages" file then when I finished I could create a ".doc" copy in "Save As..." and save it to my Desktop (quick and easy to delete, right?).  NOW those who made Lion, in their infinite wisdom, decided that was just a little to "microsoft-y" for their new OS and now to save a copy of any file in a different format other than it's original, you must first create an entirely new file via "Duplicate" (which seems like a nice idea for those experimenting with different drafts, or what-not).

     


    So the old saving process went something like this:

    1.  Create/Name document
    2.  Write

    3.  Command-S to save
    4.  Save As... > check box for "Save a copy as -  .doc"** 

     

     

    **Could have saved all this work if this option made the Duplicate, instead of replacing the extention... it does say "copy" afterall.

     

     

    Now the new process for me:

    1.  Create/Name document
    2.  Write

    3.  Command-S to "Save A Version" (don't know why it's called that when that's not really what it does...)

    4.  Duplicate

    5.  Save... > check box for "Save a copy as -  .doc"

    6.  Make sure to delete the word "copy" I never wanted in my file name anyways

    7.  Close and confirm that I didn't want to save the "duplicate" .pages file when prompted.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    Sagittal wrote:

     

    Now the new process for me:

    1.  Create/Name document
    2.  Write

    3.  Command-S to "Save A Version" (don't know why it's called that when that's not really what it does...)

    4.  Duplicate

    5.  Save... > check box for "Save a copy as -  .doc"

    6.  Make sure to delete the word "copy" I never wanted in my file name anyways

    7.  Close and confirm that I didn't want to save the "duplicate" .pages file when prompted.

     

    Save a Version does exactly what it says.

    It save the late changes bringing to the current state of the document in the hidden folder used by the Versions tool.

    It's these Versions which you may retrieve easily :

    2012-02-01T17.45.35.jpg

    Open the screenshot to see the details.

    On the left is the current state of the document.

    On the right we have several chronological Versions of this document.

    On the right bottom you may see that Versions stored from october 2011 to january 2012 are available.

    It's what is saved when we trigger Save a Version.

    This feature apply only on documents saved in the app's native format.

    The described new process is not matching the designed one.

    This one would be

    Create/Name a document which means in fact that you Save it once.

    Write

    Duplicate

    Export > Doc (you would spare a step). During this task you define the name and the location.

    Close and confirm that you don't want to save the "duplicate" .pages file

    Close the original which will be automatically saved.

     

    I applied italics to three steps because they aren't part of the main application goal.

    Pages is mainly designed to create Pages documents.

    By definition, using it to create Word documents is wasting time.

    Better do that with LibreOffice. The .doc result will be closer to the original than what you may get with Pages.

    The Export to .doc feature isn’t designed to be a 'full time' one. It's just to give you a lift when, from time to time, you must open or you must write in this foreign format.

    From my point of view, embedding the .doc option in Save As… was an error. This tool made sense to save  in Pages '09 or in Pages '08 format.

    We have already two scheme to create a .doc file :

    File > Export > Word

    or

    Share > Export > Word

    It's clearly sufficient.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 1 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • cstreater Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    With the exception of a single person; it seems everyone in this thread disagrees with Apple's decision to remove a feature that's been in use since the beginning of time.

     

    I have submitted my feedback to Apple - via the link posted in this thread.

     

    I do not accept the explanation that we -- the consumer -- have been doing things wrong and that Apple's implementation of this workflow has been wrong in all prior OS releases. If consumers have adopted and like the Save As feature, Apple shouldn't have touched it. The fact is -- I have never found myself in a frustrating situation over the "Save As" feature, and complaints about it have never left my mouth.

     

    Yvan, while I appreciate that you've taken the time to explain and make a case as to why we should adopt this proper way of doing things, many of us have lost countless hours in productivity trying to change our mindset to adopt a workflow that doesn't make sense nor meet our needs. The "we have been doing it wrong this whole time" doesn't fly with me, and I'm a little peeved I've had to spend half a morning researching this issue.

     

    Nobody forced us to upgrade to Lion? That's also a lame thing to say. People purchase updated Operating Systems because they like to have the latest and greatest features, and there's also an expectation - particularly with Apple - that there will be new and innovative features and performance advantages. On the other hand, it wasn't my expectation that they would be reinventing wheels and our humanistic thought processes. You also have to remember, that while you seem to be pretty tech savvy, at 67 years old, things like this are extremely difficult for folks like my 67 and 80 year old parents to adopt. Explaining to them that "they've been doing it wrong" doesn't fly with them. They are not as technically savvy as you are.

     

    Hopefully Apple will "fix" what apparently is no longer broken, and if it turns out that I'm in the minority of users who do not want the save as feature back; I will accept the fact that I must change my ways to accomadate what is defined as a proper workflow. However, based on the responses in this threadl I have a feeling this is not the case.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    Lion got already two updates but Save As… is not back.

    iBooks Author was just delivered and it doesn't embed the Save As… menu item.

    I guess that we will never see it back.

    I discussed with a lot of users which agree with me but have a professional life so they don't want to waste time fighting against wind mills.

    I'm retired so I'm free to post here and there when I want.

    Funny way to behave.

    The threads related to this feature embed less than 1000 signatures but since the delivery of Lion, Apple sold millions of macs hosting Lion.

    I'm not sure that the balance is in favor of these signatures.

    Apple representatives are well formed. They will never tell to somebody asking them that they are wrong. But they will not change a design choice for that.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 1 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

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