I agree. Lion reminds me of why I stopped upgrading Microsoft OS at XP Pro. I switched to Mac because I could run XP Pro in Parallels and transition to Apple apps. I've gone back to Microsoft apps (Excel, Word & PowerPoint) just to have Save As work as it was originally designed.
Save as is completely unchanged in MS Office for Mac, see below, that's Excel on Mountain Lion, and it is the same as it was on Lion and Snow Leopard.
I switched to Lion to use iCloud. But because of all the problems with Lion, such as unreliable saving of documents, extreme slow processing on a new iMac, and the intial fiasco of losing files in the cloud, I bought a backup software I could count on. Reliability seems to have escaped Lion.
Office does not now and did not (on Lion) save to iCloud
In their effort to design for the computer novice, Apple screwed up average users like me (extensive use of apps). Power users (programmers) implement workarounds in every OS to make things work the way they want it to work, knowing nothing is ever perfect. Now that I understand how the iPad handles documents, I've confirmed I don't need one until they fix this problem. (Again, supporting why I don't use the cloud.) iPad is great to surf the web, look at photos, email, and social networking. . . not for work.
Though I understand Apple is trying to marry the method of use between the iPad and Macs. It's short-sighted to use the current iPad as the functional model for all Macs. The iPad is like a toddler. The Mac is its middle-aged daddy. Not only do they want dad to eat with his fingers. They also want dad to "feel assured" he'll never lose any edit he makes to his documents. All dad has to do is find the one he wants out of the 20 versions they saved, even if that means reading thru twenty 50-page documents.
Apple needs to increase the capability and flexibility of the iPad (grow it up) before using it as a model to convince daddy this is a better way to live. Even closing an app on an iPad is far from intuitive, resulting in unnecessary memory and battery use. Seems they could correct these oversights by incorporating pull-down menus from hand gestures to replace right-mouse clicks and keyboard+mouse commands to access menus. Not re-inventing the wheel from a child's perspective.
Apple you've made a mistake. You know it. I know. Everyone in this forum - save Koenig Yvan - knows it. Do us a favour and put Save as back in the menu. When I download a file it's highly likely that I'll want to save it somewhere else and under a different file name. I shouldn't have to go down the circuitous "Duplicate" route to achieve this. I like change, I really do. But as Ihotka says, why change 25 years of UI standards when it "just works" the way you want it to.
I can't stand auto-save!! - I keep loosing documents. Duplicate is the most stupid implementation of forking I have ever seen. This was surely done by a square head programer with too much time on their hands. Plus all the bugs that come with iCloud. Steve Jobs: We miss you!!
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 8:26 AM (in response to seventy one)
hmmmmm.... well, despite searching I have never managed to find an answer to my specific issue with the new Save feature, and although I prefer the "Save As", I found adjusting to the new Save feature not too bad for my personal work flow.
I do not really find the versioning of the new Save useful, can only think of a couple of times it's actually been of any use. Though in the Applications where it's use would be useful it doesn't exist, a save a version would be very useful in Logic Pro and in Adobe After Effects, but they still use the old Save As.
My issue which is related but not really mentioned is the fact that in Lion when you duplicate a document to make a copy of it (to achieve what you would with Save As), when you select to save the created duplicate you are presented with a Save window that takes you to the directory of the last opened document. Which is fine if you opened the document with the Open option from File Menu, but if like me you mostly open your documents from selecting them within Finder, the Save window presented is the previous document saved, which generally is somewhere completely unrelated and is incredibly annoying as often I am not certain of the location of the original file, which leads me to have to use Spotlight to find it…
Save As was also good for displaying the location of the currently open file if you wanted to find it in finder.
And no, the previous comment is not correct, Save As has not returned in Mountain Lion, though I thank the previous user for mentioning (checking what you said on my Laptop I have installed ML on made me realise my problem was fixed in ML) that as the issue I have just outlined has been fixed in Mountain Lion, it now functions as had done in previous versions of OS X, that clearly was a bug.
There's a few issue with ML at the moment so I will not upgrade my Mac Pro for awhile, though hoping ML will remove some of the instabilities that still exist with Logic Pro in Lion.
And as for KOENIG Yvan, he really needs to be ignored largely, yes! you do have to upgrade to Lion if you need certain new functions it includes and sooner or later you will have to upgrade as Apple will force you to due new hardware requirements. He seems stuck in some arrogant defence of Apple which is really not helpful to anyone, if these were not serious issues then so many discussions and complaints wouldn't exist, and why the **** should you have to go to the hassle of backtracking after installing anyway. Everybody has different needs and workflows. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. Personally I don't have too much of a problem with the new Save function, but there is no reason as far as I can tell why it couldn't have been incorporated as an additional function as well still keeping the Save As function. Why replace a function when you could just have both options, it should be about making software as accessible and useful for as many people and situations as possible, not forcing people to work in a certain way to the dictates and perspective of the people who created it. A lot of the problems created seem to stem from the developers deciding how the software should be used and not taking into account and or allowing users to use software as they find is most useful to them… I am sure it's a complex process, but it's something that seems to have become more prevalent recently, the rigidness of certain apps, largely Apple apps I might add.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 8:39 AM (in response to JohnSmfifth)
Curiously Yvan has got into a huge fight with Apple over turkey slapping another poster for criticising it.
Save As is really essential to many workflows. As a designer I have to open and resave files to all sorts of different formats constantly. Making the process not just 2-3 times as involved and slow, but introducing far more chance of error, is crippling.
Apple has been inflicting the death of a thousand cuts on anyone with more than 2 neurons to rub together.
Unfortunately the dumbification of everything, is a global world wide trend. Apple is just in the forefront of the movement.
Currently Being ModeratedAug 5, 2012 11:35 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Yeah I am inclined to agree, I guess maybe now that Apple has become a mainstream company and it is more intent on catering and controlling the masses for greater profit it's priorities are just more about greed and increased profit and power than previously, could be it's undoing in the long run... either-way maybe it's time for a new Apple, as in a cutting edge company that's not become a bloated, greedy and somewhat power hungry corporation. That is after all the price of success in this corporate dictatorship, sooner or later innovation is replaced with exploitation. Where or rather who do we go to from here... maybe Linux is that answer, though I am yet to touch that system so I couldn't say, certainly seems the future needs to continue to move more into open source and not for profit development...
Currently Being ModeratedAug 10, 2012 7:22 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Hi: I feel instead of waiting for Apple to fix the mess they created I have to get on with the job. I therefore have been looking for replacement apps to do the job..
Add one more replacement app to my list....
BEAN has now replaced Text Edit on my list of apps. It is free does most of what I need and forget about word, etc.......just wish it could handle floating graphics..... (Not available on the app store)
Hail to the only two apps that I know of that allow you to turn SAVE AS/Versions on or off
GraphicConverter - photoshop(?), Preview etc etc replacement????? just does everything
NeoOffice - Office replacement pages, numbers, database etc etc.. (but just not pretty or graphics etc...
they both work and do the job without having to fight...
please help me add to the list
If your iWork '09 is from a Retail DVD (mine is V9.0.3), and if you are satisfied with it's features, just do not let it update. It works just fine in Lion, but does not use the Lion document handling features. In other words it works just like it does in Snow Leopard - no versions, no autosave, and save-as works like it it always has. I would like to know if someone has tried this in Mountain Lion.MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.7.2)
Currently Being ModeratedAug 10, 2012 9:19 AM (in response to Regular Guy)
Yes REGULAR GUY that is what we do at our office... we installed that version and manually update it with the iWork9.0.5 Update and everything works great. Yes you do have to make sure to "ignore" the update that you will get. If you accidently update it you can just delete it and re-install it etc.