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Worth upgrading to Lion Server?

Not trying to be snarky, geniunly curious.


Currently have a Snow Leopard server for a small business office. It's being used as an Open Directory master, network share, web server, and Time Machine backup. No mail/calendar/wiki (use Kerio for that). In reading about Lion server I'm not sure if any of the new features are worth the upgrade for me. We went from 10.5 to 10.6 server mostly for the speed boosts and Spotlight searching, but I can't seem to find any "must have" Lion features for my use case.


Anyone care to share their decisions over why they are planning an upgrade, and why?

Mac Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.7)

Posted on Jul 26, 2011 11:24 AM

Reply
58 replies

Jul 26, 2011 11:50 AM in response to topher1078

My experience with Lion server has not been good.


I use a Mac mini server for my small business, with Snow leopard it sat happily in the corner providing mail, wiki's, all which you have mentioned.


I upgraded to lion server when it was released, since then i have been on the phone to Apple every day since. Have been instructed to restore back to snow leopard and upgrade to lion again, then spent 2 days trying to get mail working properly (mail was coming through a day late) once that was sorted all the services stopped working and this afternoon have been told by another apple engineer to install a fresh copy of Lion again!


Im going to give it one last go but think ill end up back with Snow Leopard as the engineer i spoke to last has had the same problems as me and even admitted it might be best.


I love Apple products, I dont have anything else but im just saying what i have experienced. Anyone relying on there server for their business i recommend holding fire untill these problems get ironed out with a few software updates. Snow leopard seems to be much more complete server compared to Lion in its current state.

Jul 26, 2011 11:59 AM in response to topher1078

I'm running a similar setup like yours with 10.6.8 Server including Wiki 2 and Mail. From what you mention, you'd see no benefit from migrating to 10.7 at this point. Here's what I found so far while testing Mac OX X Lion 10.7 this weekend:


What's Good:

  1. Fixed issue with TimeMachine graphics not displaying in RemoteDesktop. You now can use the GUI for TimeMachine on a headless server!
  2. Kerberos single-sign on worked out of the box. I never got it to work properly on Snow Leopard


What's not so good:

  1. LDAP (Open Directory not stable). I had a very clean and standard Mac OS 10.6.8 Server install and both the upgrade and migration methods had issues. I recommend you wait for 10.7.1 or even 10.7.2
  2. I had to re-install Mac OS X Lion Server on a different partition after some intial testing and the App Store charged me the $78 again! Not sure if that's been resolved.
  3. Apple "simplified" server management. This means that they eliminated most services from the Server Admin tool. The only way to edit vertain settings (such as VPN) other than via Command Line in Terminal is through the Server (app), which only runs on 10.7 Server/Clients. Then again, DNS is configured through the Server Admin, not the Server (app). Anyway, two different places to change settings and one of them doesn't run on older clients.
  4. AFS/SMB shares work but there's limited privileges editing compared to Snow Leopard Server (ACL management, etc is all kinda gone). Read about issues people had with SMB to allow Windows clients to connect.
  5. I could not find a way to enable virtual hosting until I found this: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3205108?tstart=0

This doesn't apply to you, but:

  1. Upgrading/migrating mail is not strightforward. The documentation provided by apple is not 100% accurate. Read posts about mail server storage location issues in this forum or you'll go crazy.
  2. Wiki 3: Templates are gone, and Internet Explorer 8 is not supported anymore.

Jul 26, 2011 7:32 PM in response to JohnDProctor

I would agree. Snow Leopard Server is refined and working. Lion Server happens to one of the poorest products Apple has released in a very long time. Been using Apple's Server products since Tiger.


Issues I currently have...


*Services turning on and off.

-iCal

-Address Book

-iChat

-Mail


*Web / Wiki - Services practically nonexistent.


I have reinstalled 4 times. I'm giving up for now, reverted back to SL Server. Let's hope 10.7.1 resolves many of the bugs we all experience currently.

Jul 26, 2011 8:41 PM in response to JohnDProctor

Do not migrate to lion from a working version of snow leopard. I have reinstalled multiple times, attempted migrations multiple times and run fresh installs multiple times. I finally used my carbon copy cloner version to put everything back. It's working and steady after many late night and Hous of calls to apple tech support.


First, under SLS I use iCal, iChat, address book and file sharing services. Nothing fancy for office of less than 10. We scan from a xerox scanner which requires smb to store files onto server.


In Lion SMB does not allow me to write files from xerox device. No one can figure that out why. There is a technical service bulletin http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3888 related to authentication issues. It may help someone - not me.


Next, no one can explain how to bring over the iCal data from sls. Am I just supposed to forget about all of the calendared events on the 6 or so calendars that are running and hope that the new server will figure out how to import the data and relate it to the users? I tried exporting the calendars from individual computers and tried importing them after the migration. Many errors or messages stating I could not import certain calendar events including locations within the event. That's not really what I expected and with critical deadlines, cannot rely upon.


The iChat service did not recognize prior buddies which means we all had to reinvite and accept ourselves as buddies. Not so easy when people turn their machines on at different times and days.


I'm too tired to write any more. I am not as technically savvy as the it people who use this stuff and know terminal commands to do extra stuff. I do read manuals and try to figure it out. Manuals and decent explanations are sadly lacking at this point in time. further, it is not really clear that what you have working will work when you are through with the migration or upgrade process.


If you do decide to leap to lion BACKUP FIRST with carbon copy cloner and make sure you test boot your drive first so you can jump back if you need to. Also, probably best to try this on a weekend with lots of time. Make sure equipment that interacts with your server will work with lion. Do not assume it will.

Jul 31, 2011 9:22 AM in response to topher1078

Do not... I repeat... do not... upgrade from SL Server to Lion server on a productive system... I trusted apple with their upgrade instructions and specially because they have been trustworthy in the past... well... I crashed and burned... !!!


started out with missing graphs and status on server, then the mail server failed, then the web server didn't deliver pages... just to mention a view facts among other things.


I hope they reconsider their intentions with this version of the server... because after my boss caught on, he started to throw in comments about migrading to windows or linux servers.

Aug 12, 2011 2:48 PM in response to topher1078

I will add to what was said above. Do not under any circumstances upgrade.


I recently setup a clean Lion server, pre-installed on an iMac, with the lion server add-on from the App Store. So, totally clean machine, starting from scratch, Lion pre-installed.


It's been a nightmare. The Server tool is unusable. It is buggy as ****. User and Group assignments just up and dissapear. They are still present, but you can't see them from the Server Tool. The only way to manage them is to use the Users and Groups Preference Pane, which is a pain also, but at least it works.


The UI for setting permissions (yes, the standard Command-I interface), is screwed up also. It cannot handle simple tasks whithout failing. You never know what it its going to do. You add a group. But it doesn't take. You add it again. It might work. Hevean forbid you want to add a group, assign it read-write, and then apply to all subfolders. LOOKS like it works, but it doesn't. I confirmed this using the command line tools.


I finally gave up trying to use the UI for permissions, and now I am doing everything from the command line using "chmod" commands. These always work. As soon as I can figure out how to manage users and groups from the command line, that's what I'm going to do.


Windows SMB/CIFS sharing is a nightmare. It mostly works. Except when it doesn't. And it doesn't a whole lot of time. You think it's fine. But for no apparent reason, the Mac starts dropping the connection if it idles for too long. You can have a document open on a Windows machine, and go back to save it or work further, and the connection has dropped. Repeatedly you will work on a file, and for no apparent reason, when you try to save it, you are told that the file is already open by another user. But it's not. You are the only user, and in fact you are only using one single application to edit the file.


I could not get our Debian-Linux based RIPs (for our large format printers) to connect using SMB at all. I finally gave up after numerous attempts trying every possible combination, and switched to using NFS exports. Thankfully, NFS still works in Lion, and the NFS Manager app (google for it) has been updated to manage them if you are uncomfortable doing it from the command line / text editor.


We are hobbling along. It ain't pretty. I wish we had another option at this point.


FYI: We didn't have a choice but to make this move now. Our old fileserver, a linux box, could no longer keep up with our growing user base and our very large file systems (we are a medium-sized printing company). Linux is great as a Mac server for smaller networks, but it can't handle either Samba or AFP connections once the filesystem grows too large. It bogs down horribly due to the inherent limitations of Samba and Netatalk. So our only options were a Mac Server or Windows+Extreme-Z IP. We chose to roll the dice on an iMac + Promise Pegasus disk array on Thunderbolt + Lion Server.


I wish I had the option to install Snow Leopard. But you can't install it on this iMac. The only machines that support Thunderbolt AND Snow Leopard are laptops. Unless we spent gobs of money on a Mac Pro + Fiber Channel (which would have been almost triple the price), our only choices were the new Mac Mini Server, or the new iMac, either of which supports Thunderbolt, but neither of which supports Snow Leopard.

Aug 14, 2011 9:22 AM in response to topher1078

Another foobar Lion Server install. The Server App crashes within seconds of launch both locally and on remote laptop. The machine is a headless mac mini server which makes things awkward for re installing. At least I am used to using the command line, however other users are not. I am really suprised at how poor this product is. I am used to initial offerings of sofware products being followed by a rush of bug fixes, but in this case there appears to be defeaning slience.


Maybe all the issues will be resolved in upcoming bugfixes, but these affected systems are used by real people in the meantime.


I have a paid up and non functional product, and no word or hurry from Apple to do anything about it.


I will not be convinced easily that Apple could not could have directed a tiny trickle of their profits towards a few programmers.


I'm not feeling the love at this point. It feels to me like a token and a grudging effort and I would not be suprised if the Server software goes the way of the Xserve, and my fear is it will happen all the quicker if too many complaints start to worry at edge of the company Image. I hope not, Apple have the demonstrated the will and their ability to exceed expectations on many many occasions, which just makes a situation like this feel like deliberate neglect.


Anyway, I and the people depending on our services need to get on so I am cutting my losses and dusting off my linux box.


Don't upgrade until things become stable.

Aug 14, 2011 10:41 AM in response to topher1078

Purchased a new Mini w/Lion Server as an all-around home server.


Goal was host my own family share for common files,

Portable home directories, so the few Macs we have can be shared transparantly.

Parental controls.

Wiki server (for kids to draft homeworks)

VPN access would be cool so I can still monitor what's going on when I'm on Travel.


I setup everything and converted local accounts to network accounts, and everyting looked great. Then I rebooted the server and everything went to %^&#! Services wouldn't start, "error reading configuration" the console log belching error messages about just about everything. Server App denied permission to run. Search the forum, it's a common story.


Restoring from Time Machine failed to correct the problems. I ended up doing a clean install. (which takes intolerably long) In Round 2, I have the portable home directories, group folder and the parental controls on the appropriate account, but I've dropped the other goals.


I've administered Windows servers professionally, and I've administered several Windows, Linux, and Mac workstations at the hobby level, and I've never been scared of a Server OS until now. I don't know what went wrong with the FACTORY INSTALL, but I'm afraid it could happen again. I'm afraid to reboot the thing; or install patches; or turn on new services.


I've read stories about Steve Jobs, going off on the apple engineers about how bad the initial roll-out of Mobile Me sucked. I don't know if that story is true or not. The server software team needs a similar wake-up call, but it sure doesn't seem like Tim Cook is lighting any fires under any of the right backsides. I'd like to send Steve a "Get Well Soon" card.


Lion Server is NOT ready for production. I'd call it "Beta testable" but, it seems to me even beta software tends to be more stable.

Sep 17, 2011 10:28 AM in response to osuxs

osuxs wrote:


Another foobar Lion Server install. The Server App crashes within seconds of launch both locally and on remote laptop. The machine is a headless mac mini server which makes things awkward for re installing. At least I am used to using the command line, however other users are not. I am really suprised at how poor this product is. I am used to initial offerings of sofware products being followed by a rush of bug fixes, but in this case there appears to be defeaning slience.


Maybe all the issues will be resolved in upcoming bugfixes, but these affected systems cronometro online are used by real people in the meantime.


I have a paid up and non functional product, and no word or hurry from Apple to do anything about it.


I will not be convinced easily that Apple could not could have directed a tiny trickle of their profits towards a few programmers.


I'm not feeling the love at this point. It feels to me like a token and a grudging effort and I would not be suprised if the Server software goes the way of the Xserve, and my fear is it will happen all the quicker if too many complaints start to worry at edge of the company Image. I hope not, Apple have the demonstrated the will and their ability to exceed expectations on many many occasions, which just makes a situation like this feel like deliberate neglect.


Anyway, I and the people depending on our services need to get on so I am cutting my losses and dusting off my linux box.


Don't upgrade until things become stable.



thanks

Worth upgrading to Lion Server?

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