Previous 1 68 69 70 71 72 Next 1,105 Replies Latest reply: Jul 18, 2013 12:57 PM by DChord568 Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    You have nothing to apologize for. Your response was entirely correct, and PeePee Sprinkles (you have to wonder about someone who would choose that as a screen name) came back with far more vitriol than was called for...particularly when what he said was completely erroneous. With just a small amount of searching, he could have easily found the answer in multiple locations.

     

    And in very typical fashion, we note that he has not come back to admit that he was wrong. He just melted back into the woodwork, as so many other cowards on this board do when shown the error of their ways.

     

    You took responsibility for your post...something that is obviously quite beyond him.

  • alex149 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    thank you, although i feel i did need to appologise, regardless of whether he was rude to me it does not allow me to do the same, on another note i am slightly worried now by his choice of screen name, i do hope it doesnt imply what im thinking.

  • PeePee Sprinkles Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    What was completely erroneous?  I will admit I was wrong, I just need to know with which statement. Nice attempt at flaming, I tend to hide in forums posting when I need to get my work done.

     

    discussions.apple.com:

     

    search = "save as"  -> "what happened to save as" (this thread), and "I want my save as back" (flame thread).

     

    search = "how do I save as" = no relevent hits.

     

    search = "Pages save as" = "save as in pages on lion" (a thread of comaplaints asking us to complain).

     

    search = "How do I save as in Keynote" = "Lion does not have "Save as." How do I change the name of a Keynote presentation?" (aside from teaching folks how to "rename", no solution).

     

    search = "why am I wasting my time trying to figure out how to save as?" = "There were no results for why am I wasting my time trying to figure out how to save as?" (no crap).

     

    Also, I posted I have 10.7, not 10.8.  And stop being a Linux queen ans calling them animal names, when users use "About This Mac", they are given a version number, not a meme. Pay me and I'll upgrade, but an upgrade and hodling a key down is not the solution folks are looking for.

     

    BTW, I picked this stupid name bacause Apple wouldn't accept the myriad of obviously-unique usernames when I set this up. When I hold down "option", I feel the same anger.

  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    PeePee Sprinkles wrote:

     

    What was completely erroneous?  I will admit I was wrong, I just need to know with which statement. Nice attempt at flaming, I tend to hide in forums posting when I need to get my work done.

     

    I have no interest in flaming anyone. My posts have been a very sincere reaction to both the content and the tenor of yours.

     

     

     

    Also, I posted I have 10.7, not 10.8.

     

    Perhaps you'll tone done the arrogance a pinch when you realize that you did no such thing, at any time, in this thread. This, of course, makes all the difference in the world in answering your question — as I clearly explained in my first reply to your post (and you apparently ignored).

     

    In fact, it's more than apparent. I even asked you directly for a clarification of your statements...but none was forthcoming.

     

    Ready for your first admission of error now?

     

     

     

    And stop being a Linux queen ans calling them animal names, when users use "About This Mac", they are given a version number, not a meme.

     

    For someone who paints himself as so experienced in the ways of discussion boards, I'm surprised you're unaware that you don't get to tell us what to do here. We'll use whatever terminology we deem appropriate. If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to impose your charming personality on another thread.

     

    By the way, what is a "Linux queen ans"? Could this be another occasion to admit an error?

     

     

     

    Pay me and I'll upgrade, but an upgrade and hodling a key down is not the solution folks are looking for.

     

    Time for admission of error #3?

     

    And I'm glad you're so all-knowing that you can speak for every Macinosh user on the planet with such confidence. You're not speaking for me. Personally, while I devoutly wish the entire Save As debacle had never happened in the first place, I'm figuring right now that the Option key fix in Mountain Lion is as good as it's gonna get.

     

    It took a very long time and a lot of gnashing of teeth before it was finally offered. Many in this thread and elsewhere told us it would never happen, and that we were wasting our time complaining about it.

     

    We proved them wrong, and while the Option key fix may not be the perfect solution, it is a solution.

     

    Furthermore, if (when debating the need for Auto Save) I lambasted those too lazy to key Command-S every once in a while, I can hardly moan about holding down the Option key from time to time to accomplish what I need to.

     

     

     

    BTW, I picked this stupid name bacause Apple wouldn't accept the myriad of obviously-unique usernames when I set this up.

     

    A pity you didn't try just a little bit harder. As I intimated, it's a little hard to take anything you say seriously with a screen name like that.

     

     

     

    When I hold down "option", I feel the same anger.

     

    I would like to gently suggest that you do have some anger management issues you might want to work on.

  • alex149 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    love it

  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (34,710 points)

    while the Option key fix may not be the perfect solution, it is a solution.

    This solution is far superior to using the Option key, though it requires using Mountain Lion. A couple of simple changes banishes Duplicate from the menus and ML behaves just like Snow Leopard and earlier. There are actually several changes below. The others are to get rid of the idiotic "make my Mac behave like an iPad" options of trying to make your Mac pick up where it left off every time you turn it back on.

     

    I did post a link to this a few pages back in this thread, but it was probably easy to overlook, so here it is in its entirety.

     

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Many users calling Apple directly, and posts on various web sites finally convinced Apple to return Save As. As you noticed though, it's not in the same place it held for over two decades. In particular, not for those programs written by Apple. It is possible to get Save As… back to its long time keystroke by following the steps below.

     

    Step one: Open the System Preferences and click on the General tab. By default, two options are off. Turn on the check boxes for Ask to keep changes when closing documents, and Close windows when quitting an application.

     

    Screen Shot 2012-10-29 at 8.26.52 AM.png

     

    The first is particularly important to Save As since you do not want Autosave/Versions saving anything without your consent. If you don't check the first box, your original document will receive the same changes as your Save As document, defeating the entire purpose of not having your original assume all of the same changes. The second isn't necessary to Save As, but if you're like me, you also have no desire for your desktop Mac to behave like an iPad, which restores all apps back to their last state during a startup or restart whether you want it to or not.

     

    Step two: Related to the Close windows when quitting an application check box is reopening windows when logging back in. Again, it's an iPad like behavior, which many desktop users also didn't like. Select and Restart or Shut Down from the Apple menu and uncheck the box for Reopen windows when logging back in.

     

    Screen Shot 2012-10-29 at 8.29.53 AM.png

     

    Your Mac will now work like any Mac before Lion, 10.7. Apps will not launch themselves and program windows will not restore themselves on a restart or power on.

     

    Step three: Back to Save As. Open the System Preferences and click on Keyboard. Choose Application Shortcuts in the left column. By default, the only item there is Show Help menu. You're going to add a new one. Click the + button, type Save As and stop. Be sure to capitalize each word.

     

    Three periods does not work here, you must enter a true ellipses. On a U.S. keyboard, that's Option+; (Option key plus the semi-colon). Where it asks what keystroke you want assigned to your new entry, press Command+Shift+S. Click the Add button and close the System Preferences. Your screen should look like the image below.

     

    Screen Shot 2012-10-29 at 8.38.16 AM.png

     

    Close any applications you may have had open and relaunch them. Save As… will now replace Duplicate in all menus where Command+Shift+S would be. Duplicate will remain in your menus, but now has no keystroke (on the desktop, Command+D will be Duplicate, like it always has been). Save As will also work as you've always used it. After saving your document with a new name, you can close the original and it will do so without asking if your want to save your changes to the original. Even better, the original closes without any of the changes applied to it. And by having the check box on for Ask to keep changes when closing documents, you can close a document that has changes without Autosave/Versions saving those changes without asking. You will instead get a choice of Revert Changes, which will have the same effect as the old Don't Save.

     

    If you search around, you'll find Terminal commands to completely disable Autosave/Versions globally. Don't do that. If you do, then even with the above changes, Save As… will disappear from Preview. The only commands in the menu to save any file will be Save or Export. The Terminal command doesn't affect TextEdit the same way, Save As… stays in the menu. I don't have any of the iLife or iWork apps, so I don't know how it would affect those. From those reporting who have tried these steps, Save As… returns to Command+Shift+S.  It doesn't matter that Autosave/Versions is active at this point. With the changes above, your Mac will essentially behave like OS X in Snow Leopard or earlier. Not that Autosave/Versions working in the background still won't slow your system down when working with large files, but at this time, you can't have it both ways.

  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Thanks for this information, Kurt. I set up Mountain Lion at home using all of the settings you suggest some time ago, with the exception of your last section. If I understand you correctly, the change you suggest in Keyboard Preferences will make Save As... appear by default in the File Menu without having to first press the Option key. That would be useful. I will try it on my home Mac tonight.

     

    All of the other changes were ones I made when true Save As... was returned to Mountain Lion, so in all other regards my home Mac works in the way I've been accustomed to for decades.

     

    It should always be about choice. For example, there are times when I do find it useful to have my Mac return to its last state (e.g., web pages or documents open) when I start up after having shut down. But not all of the time, so this shouldn't be imposed upon me by force. On those occasions when I want this to happen, I can simply hit the space bar, and the box invoking this behavior is checked. But it should be off by default, not on.

     

    It took quite a while, but Apple finally got this by providing the options you cite above.

  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (34,710 points)

    If I understand you correctly, the change you suggest in Keyboard Preferences will make Save As... appear by default in the File Menu without having to first press the Option key.

    That is correct. Duplicate will be bumped from the Command+Shift+S position and replace by Save As… .

    It should always be about choice.

    Absolutely. Somebody (or a group of people) at Apple seemed to have completely forgotten that the job of the OS is to do what you tell it to do. When it tries to guess at your intention, or do things you have no desire for it to do at all, with no way to turn it off, then it is only succeeding in getting in your way.

     

    Some things of course it has always done without your approval or need to even ask. When you save a file, you have no need to even know how it's being done. Your control though is still that you told the OS to do that. How it does that isn't your concern, just so it gets done correctly. Memory management is all at the control of the OS. Few of us would understand the most optimized way to do that, so users don't need to pay attention to how the OS does that. Just do your work and let the OS handle it. There are many other such examples where what happens underneath isn't anything the user needs to, or should even have the option to control.

     

    But your data is YOUR data. The OS had no business at any time deciding for you what to do with it. At least, not without a way to turn it off. Many users love autosave. I, and millions of other users don't want anything to do with it.

     

    As you noted, Apple finally got it right by providing enough options (though not out in the open) to set things back to "normal". Now if only you could truly turn Autosave/Versions off without it screwing up the file menus.

  • linda2009 Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    Wow, Kurt, thank you so much for taking the time to create and post that information.  It is so easy to understand and follow; so well written.  I really appreciate it.

     

    While I am still running Snow Leopard (10.6.8) and Pages 4.0.4 (not latest version) and Numbers 2.0.4 (not latest version), I am thinking that eventually I will have to move on up to the latest OS (ML).  All my current software runs just fine with SL, some won't run on ML...waiting until I absolutely have to or someone shows me a really good reason!  lol!

     

    And, I have no need to update iWork.  I would love to see a NEW version of iWork, it's been so long.  But, from what I've read, the updates are mainly for Lion/M.Lion.  I don't want to mess with a good thing.

     

    I TOTALLY agree with your last post - I DO NOT WANT my Mac Mini or my MacBook to operate, function, look, etc like an iPhone, iPad, or iPod, (mobile iOS!!).  I want more control.

     

    I copied and created a Bean document for future reference...just in case.  Bean (an excellent TextEdit replacement), by the way, is no longer being developed and that's too bad.

     

    Again, thanks for the post.

  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (34,710 points)

    I am thinking that eventually I will have to move on up to the latest OS (ML).

    I've recently gotten to the point where I have to move out of Snow Leopard, at least for some apps. My normal MOI is to purchase the upgrade for QuickBooks Pro for Mac every other year. The 2013 version will only run in Lion or Mountain Lion, so in order to use it, I have to move to ML. There is also an App Store item I purchased which will not run in SL, so that's another reason to finally move to ML.

     

    For me, since I have essentially always avoided any production apps written by Apple, moving to ML will really be no different than SL. With the changes above, I no longer even need replacements for TextEdit or Preview since I can now close them down without changes being applied to files I have open without my knowledge or approval. Everything else I use day to day (like the Adobe suites and MS Office) completely ignores Autosave/Versions.

     

    About the only holdovers I must boot into Snow Leopard for is our scanners, which are currently permanently stuck as PPC software (and don't work in a VM due to lack of FireWire port linking) and a profiling software package we still need for full profile editing. But we don't use either of those that often, so it's not like I'd be booting back and forth every day. I just need to finish installing everything else I currently have under SL into ML and I'll be ready to use it as my everyday OS.

  • linda2009 Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    Scanners?  Geez, I never even thought about my scanners.  Like you said, not that I use it everyday, but I do use my scanner and I have no idea if it would work in ML.

     

    Guess I would have to learn to use Boot Camp!  I've never had the need before.

     

    I currently use Calendar Maker by Prairie Group and the newest version will not work in ML.  They haven't updated their program either.  I use Calendar Maker a lot.

     

    Sometimes the new OS is very inviting, especially at Apple's price.  But, right now I'm not updating.  I bought my latest machines just before Lion came out, so SL was the OS, so they could handle ML, but I'll just wait....

     

    Time goes too fast!  lol!!

     

     

    **Oh, and I really don't like the App Store - I have never used it and I avoid it!  If I upgrade to ML, I would have to learn how to save the file and make a disk.  I don't like having to connect to Apple whenever I have to format and reinstall (not that I've had to do that a lot or anything).  Guess I like having control over my computers!  The App Store feels too much like mobile devices.

  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (34,710 points)

    I bought my latest machines just before Lion came out, so SL was the OS, so they could handle ML, but I'll just wait....

    Hah! I did exactly the same thing. I wasn't really in the market to replace my Mac Pro, but when I found out Lion dropped all support for Rosetta, I purchased as new of a Mac Pro I could that shipped with Snow Leopard as the bundled OS. It's the one I'm on now, but can still upgrade to ML. Actually, the previous one can, too. We're using it as our second work station and is connected to our other scanner. The older Mac Pro I'm guessing will max out at ML.

  • oktan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    >It took quite a while, but Apple finally got this by providing the options

     

    Thank God, the Apple people listened to their rather shocked customers!

    But it took a long while!

     

    Now I've updated to 10.8.2 with Kurt's advice and it looks just fine ...

     

    ... and after 145 pages (of this discussion saved much of the discussion - I wonder:


     

     

    ============ has this been the longest (Apple-) thread ever? =============

     

    / Omar K N

    Mac user since OS 7.0

  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (34,710 points)

    has this been the longest (Apple-) thread ever?

    Nope. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the record is, but this thread isn't even close.

  • PeePee Sprinkles Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I admit my typos.

     

    I admit you didn't help me, but that you are proud to be a fan-boy.

     

    I admit you can' t see beyond an arbitrary forum name (seems racist).

     

    I also admit Kurt Lang has provided a great response for 10.8 users,  Thanks Kurt. It seems I have to upgrade.

     

    Kurt gets a coveted PeePee hug.

Previous 1 68 69 70 71 72 Next