GunnerBuck
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: What happened to Save As?

I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?

Pages, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 27, 2011 6:12 AM

by Dennis_Burnham,Solvedanswer
Dennis_Burnham Dennis_Burnham
Level 1 (10 points)
A:

Yes, you moron, of course I am certain or I would not have wasted my time "ranting" as you call it.  With experience on this computer platform since 1984 and a shareholder for many years, I have earned the right to express an opinion that is, if I do say so myself, educated.

 

I did not say that there is anything wrong with Lion, notwithstanding some early adoption problems that will certainly become corrected in subsequent releases. Only a fool would discard that much progress because of a few minor glitches having to be learned or resolved.

 

The removal of SAVE AS is different.  It's a classic "ain't broke don't fix it" example.  On a system known for its intuitiveness, Save a Version is as counterintuitive as can be.  You execute the command and you're still on the same document, so what is the "version" and how does it differ from "Save" ?  The Duplicate command has worked splendidly in Photoshop, where there is a reason to have two identical docs open together.  In a word processing environment, that makes sense when you use BBEdit to compare text in multiple docs.  In Pages, as a substitute for Save As, it only results in your having to close the one you just duplicated and eventually use an additional step to name the new one something other than "copy".

 

This change is totally indefensible.  If someone can explain the rationale, go ahead.  Otherwise, you can call me an idiot or a ranter, but it's obvious by the existence of these discussions of the problem that I've got the world on my side on this one.

Posted on Sep 1, 2011 5:41 AM

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GunnerBuck

Q: What happened to Save As?

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  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 20, 2012 12:13 AM in response to jacksonian71
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 12:13 AM in response to jacksonian71

    jacksonian71 wrote:

    Thanks for the discussion to those who understand how convenient it was.  No thanks to tonza and Yvan, you're not helping anyone.  I totally get that Apple is pushing towards a merge of iOS and MacOS, but there are some very convenient things that I would hate to see changed.

    Tonza explained why the design was changed. I explained how you may use the new scheme.

    As far as I know, Save As… will not be reintroduced. I guess that it will be dropped a bit more soon.

    The problem is no longer the return of Save As…, it's to choose between OSX as it is or an other system.

    Live with it or leave it.

    My choice is done, I look in front of me, not behind.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 20 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Dennis Burnham,

    Dennis Burnham Dennis Burnham Feb 20, 2012 6:40 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (29 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 20, 2012 6:40 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    The people who disagree with you, Yvan KOENIG, are people who are hopeful that Apple will respect its customers.  Your "love it or leave it" attitude is typical of the corporate attitude at Microsoft that drives customers away.  Time will tell, of course, but if there is not this chorus of dissidence, Apple cannot be blamed for a change that nobody objects to.  Those who raise their voices here, and in other discussions and feedback tools, are using the only tools available to them to respectfully and articulately make themselves heard and understood. 

     

    Your condescending attitude toward those who do not desire to deny you the satisfaction of using the newer methods is something you should consider because it does you no good and only antagonizes those who happen to not agree with your point of view.  Every new addition to this thread by someone who, like Jacksonian, takes the time to read the entire discussion and add their comments to the 'petition' is being helpful, whereas by being derisive you gain nothing for yourself and only demoralize and weaken the rest of us.

     

    The explanations of how to use the new scheme have been ably rejected already by several people.  If you cannot accept what they wrote as facts, how can you expect them to give your explanations the same respect?

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 20, 2012 6:46 AM in response to Dennis Burnham
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 6:46 AM in response to Dennis Burnham

    Love or leave us is an old Apple practice.

     

    You may continue to dream on your little cloud that Save As… will be back one day.

    I keep feet on earth and will live without this feature for years.

    If you don't understand at this time, look at the next OS.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 20 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by bpbpbp,

    bpbpbp bpbpbp Feb 20, 2012 6:44 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 2 (205 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 6:44 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    OK ...... I have taken some valium and breathing more slowly now.

     

    Can someone tell me if these extra auto saves are able to be deleted? Or do I still not get it? Isn't this extra 'saving' adding clutter and taking up space?

     

    And although this is a little off topic - why does iCloud, when switched off, delete my computer's  calendar information and it can only be returned if I enable iCloud again. This is mentioned because the user's ability to control things, it seems, is being removed in other ways and not just in the changes to 'Save As' in Pages.

     

    Be careful, if you don't want to be enslaved by iCloud you should not 'tick' some of the features.

     

    Finally, Yvan and Tonza have coped a fair beating on this forum (from me too). I would like to say, from me anyway, that I do not wish this forum to become a place to personally attack anyone nor their integrity. You see, once properly medicated I am a reasonable person.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 21, 2012 12:17 AM in response to bpbpbp
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 12:17 AM in response to bpbpbp

    Which AutoSave are you wanting to delete ?

     

    AutoSave doesn't create new files except empty skeleton when we quit without saving a newly created document.

    Tonza wrote about them. They are the results of a bug.

    Documents are supposed to be saved automatically when we create new ones from templates or thru Duplicate.

    At this time we may find these "skeletons" in the folder :

    Macintosh HD:Users:<yourAccount>:Library:Autosave Information:

     

    This morning, mine contain only three of them because I worked most of the time from an other bootable HD:

     

    Document Numbers non enregistré.numbers

    Document Pages 2 non enregistré.pages

    Document Pages non enregistré.pages

     

    2012-02-21T09.09.58.jpg

    After checking that they are empy, I trash them.

     

    If you were asking about Versions, it's an other problem.

    We may remove some versions thru the official GUI:

    2012-02-19T20.54.58.jpg

     

    There is also the brute force scheme : rename a file or move it on an other device.

    The versions will be dropped.

    From my point of view it's annoying. Would be better to adjust the links automatically when we rename a file and display a dialog warning when we move a file on an other device.

    I'm sure that some users already loose their old versions this way.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 21 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by elol,

    elol elol Feb 21, 2012 2:51 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 2:51 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    Hi:  I for one will be dropping Numbers and Pages now the save as is missing.    I do several documents then compare layout show differen people..  and select one.

     

    the change shows absolutely no understanding of how people work.

     

    as with some of the other features.   give me the option.   dont force me...

     

    I would rather succumb to using OFFICE with all its headaches and garbage.

     

     

    by the way I move forward all the time but lets not follow apple like sheep every time.

     

    If they force this method on to other applications like photoshop etc..   the world would move over to dreaded windows.

    cheers elo

  • by raftr,

    raftr raftr Feb 21, 2012 5:54 AM in response to elol
    Level 1 (0 points)
    iTunes
    Feb 21, 2012 5:54 AM in response to elol

    I understand sooner or later "Save as…" will not be supported in OSX at all. This is one of those things Apple will not back out on. You can drop Pages but sooner or later you'll have it in Word as well.

     

    I think when building an app you have an option to build for Snow Leopard (with "Save as…") or for Lion (with new way of saving and "Save as…" support in older systems). In order to be able to distribute via App Store, you have to build for Lion and according to the new app sandboxing rules.

     

    This new saving paradigm is coming to all apps.

     

    I think I finally understood why versions are being centralized, not kept next to their original files: this way only Apple will be able to offer cloud syncing for two or more computers. Until now you could sync folders with Dropbox or Sugarsync, now by doing that you will unlink files from their version history. This is a very deliberate move by Apple.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 21, 2012 6:38 AM in response to raftr
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 6:38 AM in response to raftr

    Please, there is no need to become paranoiac.

    As far as I know, iCloud is not supposed to synchronize the versions, only the main documents.

    If you move the file xxx.pages from HD1 to HD2, it already loose its versions datas.

    I don't use Dropbox but I assume that it behave the same.

    In most of the threads about this feature, what was feared was that versions were shared thru the net which was clearly not wanted by the users.

     

    I wish to add that I agree with your sentence to which I just add one word :

    "Happily, this new saving paradigm is coming to all apps."

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 21 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Feb 21, 2012 6:47 AM in response to raftr
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 21, 2012 6:47 AM in response to raftr

    This new saving paradigm is coming to all apps.

    That is speculation at best. If not, please site the source of this "fact".

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 21, 2012 6:51 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 6:51 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    It's the way several developers understand the rules applying to apps supposed to be distributed thru the MAS.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 21 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Feb 21, 2012 7:46 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 21, 2012 7:46 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    It's the way several developers understand the rules applying to apps supposed to be distributed thru the MAS.

    "Several developers" does not equal "all".

     

    Even Apple isn't applying their new paradigm to all of their own apps. It was noted just a day or two ago in another thread that XCode in Lion does indeed include the ability to choose whether to use Save As, or Duplicate/Autosave.

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/17647514#17647514

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 21, 2012 8:16 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 8:16 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    You are proving that you have some problems with reading.

    I described the behavior of XCode in one of my first messages.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 21 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Feb 21, 2012 8:29 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 21, 2012 8:29 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    You are proving that you have some problems with reading.

    In what way? The OP in the thread I linked to specifically notes that the option to choose your workflow is in XCode's preferences. If you mean something else, why don't you just post it again?

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 21, 2012 8:36 AM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 8:36 AM in response to Kurt Lang

    In one of my vey first post I wrote that there was two scheme adopted by Apple :

    one for iWork, Preview and Textedit, an other one for XCode.

    I added that maybe it was a way to test both schemes.

    As far as I know, XCode remain the unique Apple app offering this scheme.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 21 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    As far as I know, XCode remain the unique Apple app offering this scheme.

    Yes, it would seem so. But that (to me) makes it even stranger that the capability is there, and yet they cut off user choice in all but one app.

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