GunnerBuck
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: What happened to Save As?

I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?

Pages, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 27, 2011 6:12 AM

by Dennis_Burnham,Solvedanswer
Dennis_Burnham Dennis_Burnham
Level 1 (10 points)
A:

Yes, you moron, of course I am certain or I would not have wasted my time "ranting" as you call it.  With experience on this computer platform since 1984 and a shareholder for many years, I have earned the right to express an opinion that is, if I do say so myself, educated.

 

I did not say that there is anything wrong with Lion, notwithstanding some early adoption problems that will certainly become corrected in subsequent releases. Only a fool would discard that much progress because of a few minor glitches having to be learned or resolved.

 

The removal of SAVE AS is different.  It's a classic "ain't broke don't fix it" example.  On a system known for its intuitiveness, Save a Version is as counterintuitive as can be.  You execute the command and you're still on the same document, so what is the "version" and how does it differ from "Save" ?  The Duplicate command has worked splendidly in Photoshop, where there is a reason to have two identical docs open together.  In a word processing environment, that makes sense when you use BBEdit to compare text in multiple docs.  In Pages, as a substitute for Save As, it only results in your having to close the one you just duplicated and eventually use an additional step to name the new one something other than "copy".

 

This change is totally indefensible.  If someone can explain the rationale, go ahead.  Otherwise, you can call me an idiot or a ranter, but it's obvious by the existence of these discussions of the problem that I've got the world on my side on this one.

Posted on Sep 1, 2011 5:41 AM

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Q: What happened to Save As?

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  • by Dennis Burnham,

    Dennis Burnham Dennis Burnham Feb 27, 2012 8:15 PM in response to johnfromelmendorf air force base
    Level 1 (29 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 27, 2012 8:15 PM in response to johnfromelmendorf air force base

    Keep up the drumbeat, everybody.  Ignore the shell scripts and the voices that pretend to be the wisdom of the future.  Apple can satisfy everybody very easily by giving us the choice of how we want to work.  When Mountain Lion is released, let's hope we discover that they have come to the realization that a computer may have some things in common with a mobile device beyond the logo of the manufacturer, but that doesn't mean that users do the same kind of work or have the same work habits on both.

  • by johnfromelmendorf air force base,

    johnfromelmendorf air force base johnfromelmendorf air force base Feb 28, 2012 1:15 AM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 1:15 AM in response to GunnerBuck

    How did I get here? I started with the original Mac 128K floppy disk system, within a month of when it first came out.  Since then, I have purchased over a dozed Macs, of which I still have the last six systems.  Staring with Tiger through Snow Leopard, the Operating Systems always improved, so I trusted Apple enough to give Lion a try.  That was my mistake, and I am paying dearly.  I tried to get back to Snow Leopard, but without success. The good news is that I did not install Lion on my wife’s 24” iMac, and I did not install Lion on my 24” iMac at work. The bad news is that my fully loaded 27” iMac, 3.4 GHz i7, 16GB memory, 2TB internal disk, and 24TB DroboPro FS storage now uses Lion.  Well, fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me.


    The “Save As” issue is only one of many that I have with Lion.  Now the question is, will Apple come out with an expectable Operating System before I die?  Can I get by on Lion?  Well it seems I have no choice.  Will I buy any future Mac system?  Well the differences in speed and capacity would need to be magnitudes beyond what I currently own, and the Operating System would need to be a lot better than Lion. I look forward to Mountain Lion, in the hope that Apple learned enough from Lion to fix the flaws.


    With respect to all who tried to defend Apple’s design changes, I would still prefer “Save As” with all its flaws than to use any of the workarounds explained in the discussions.  If I was happy with my experiences with Lion, then why am I freezing my other systems at Snow Leopard?  Professionally, I am a Senior Software Engineer, and I have written everything from video games to a compiler.  Most of what I write now is about maintaining backward compatibility.  Apple could have made the new options available without negating the more traditional methods of operations.  I suspect this was not done due to arrogance, because they think they know what is best for their customers.  Well, I must be the exception.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 28, 2012 3:04 AM in response to Dennis Burnham
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 3:04 AM in response to Dennis Burnham

    As far as I know, given was is available here and there in French forums, Moutain brings no change upon this feature.

    Just one more app dropping Save As… (Scripts Editor)

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Dennis Burnham,

    Dennis Burnham Dennis Burnham Feb 28, 2012 5:58 AM in response to johnfromelmendorf air force base
    Level 1 (29 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 28, 2012 5:58 AM in response to johnfromelmendorf air force base

    You are not the exception, John,  Unfortunately, neither are the people who are defending Apple just for the sake of pride, arrogance, whatever ....

     

    There's an expression I like:  "When one candle lights another, it loses nothing of itself."  Regrettably, there are those in this discussion who seem to prefer blowing out other people's candles for which they get nothing in return.

     

    Not one person bemoaning the disappearance of Save As has suggested the Apple discontinue its new auto-save systems.  We have only asked for the restoration of something that would deny no amount of forward progress to those who want to use it.  Arguably, over time, people would experiment with, and use, the features of both.

     

    I am particularly sensitive to your commends about freezing your "other systems" because mine has been a lone voice on the subject of the costs of confusion incurred by organizations which must support multiple users.

  • by GunnerBuck,

    GunnerBuck GunnerBuck Feb 28, 2012 6:27 AM in response to Dennis Burnham
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 6:27 AM in response to Dennis Burnham

    Amen to that Dennis. Again, I've switched to using Microsoft products on my Mac because they still incorporate 'save as'. I don't seem to understand why it has to be one or the other (autosave vs SA) but I couldn't agree more with keeping the drumbeat alive. I can not reiteriate it enough, that there are some functions that people who use Macs for business require. I understand the desire to present a seamless enduser experience for consumer products, to have the computer do more while you think less, but for those like myself who try to champion Macs to the small business community, it is tough to try and explain away features like 'save as' nor do I want to.

     

     

     

    I will continue to voice my concern over the matter as I have yet to hear an arguement justifying the omission of save as that holds weight to my concerns.

  • by elol,

    elol elol Feb 28, 2012 8:19 AM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 8:19 AM in response to GunnerBuck

    HI.  I am back again.Gunner and Dennis...    I agree with you both.   The best way to fight this is to walk out the apple door and use other apps.

     

    I have now purchased NEOOFFICE for £6.   they offer both Versions and save as.  they have included a new  option in their menu(below the about neooffice))  to turn  OSX (pages and numbers etc.) features on or off    including  versions, resume and other other new features.

     

    I have started to send emails to other suppliers of word processors etc.  saying that I am looking for a  products to replace apple software as I want the option to choose versions and/or save as.

     

    a reply came back from one saying they have save as in their product but have always saved versions after a certain amount of time.

     

    I also sent emails to apple re numbers and pages asking for the features to be restored.Pointed out I am looking for alternate software.

     

    I also think those who try to be moderators must be less opiniated and should listen to what users want.

     

    As an IT professionals(former) we must deliver what the customer wants or else he will find someone who will.

     

    cheers elo

  • by elol,

    elol elol Feb 28, 2012 9:27 AM in response to elol
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 9:27 AM in response to elol

    Hi:  new mountain lion announcements...

     

     

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/02/28/inside_os_x_108_mountain_lion_a_pr eview_of_how_apple_is_improving_file_renaming.html

     

     

    who knows what this really does to SAVE AS

    cheers...

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM in response to elol
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM in response to elol

    Hahahahaha!!! That's hilarious!

    The changes to Mountain Lion title bars also make it easier for non technical users to understand how to safely duplicate an existing document when they don't want to change the original, enhancing the experience of working with Version-enabled, Auto Save files.

    Gosh, and to think we've already had a way to do that for over 20 years with Save As.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 28, 2012 12:27 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 12:27 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    2012-02-28T21.24.50.jpg

    2012-02-28T21.25.09.jpg

    It's so clear that there is no need to add a comment.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by GunnerBuck,

    GunnerBuck GunnerBuck Feb 28, 2012 1:01 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 1:01 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    What am I supposed to do with this? Show my accountant my 'versions' of autosave when I'm sending over my invoices at tax time?

     

    I know there are ways to acheive what I want under the current system, but it requires way more work than simply clicking 'save as' and labelling my invoice by date or number or however I please to do it. Why should I browse through versions, find the one I want somehow and then print it, and then find the next one and the next. It makes my head want to explode!

     

    Save As. Microsoft Excel 2011. I've made my template for it and now use save as and am happy.

     

    I went to the software market to address my probelm and the competition (Microsoft) solved it by providing me the easiest solution. But before that I came to this forum to see if there was an Apple based solution and I haven't found one. Only people who agree with me or people with insanely complicated workarounds.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 28, 2012 1:12 PM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 1:12 PM in response to GunnerBuck

    You are supposed to learn what is becoming the rule.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • by Dyan,

    Dyan Dyan Feb 28, 2012 1:13 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iTunes
    Feb 28, 2012 1:13 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Since I first posted my own frustration with the lack of "Save As" I have been so pleased to see I am in good company, although sorry for us all. As a non-techie this is truly a frustrating thing for me. I use my Macs in both home and business environments and I simply move too fast to try to figure out something that was once so very simple.

     

    I am thrilled to see Mountain Lion making a change but I agree with Kurt - a 20 year old simple process has been made just too ridiculously complex. From the industry and, supposedly, company so focused on the user experience this is just nuts! Don't they have user labs to see how users will react to changes???

     

    Like some other posters here I have voiced my concerns to Apple AND I have, very reluctantly, started using the MS counterpart programs. It is easier for me to use the MS programs as I already have enough business issues to sort out to make the time it will take to get used to the Apple programs. Until Mountain Lion comes along, to be sure I do not lose data, I will continue to use the MS programs. I just cannot afford any mistakes.

     

    And, Yvan, I know the new process is all very clear to you and I am happy for you for that. But, clearly, you represent a minority of users who "get it". I sometimes can't even follow your explanations! I am not an IT person, nor should I have to be to be able to use a program that was once so simple.

  • by Dyan,

    Dyan Dyan Feb 28, 2012 1:15 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan
    Level 1 (13 points)
    iTunes
    Feb 28, 2012 1:15 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

    Yvan, I am the customer and I don't WANT to learn the new rule, especially as the old rule was not broken.

  • by linda2009,

    linda2009 linda2009 Feb 28, 2012 1:17 PM in response to Dyan
    Level 1 (66 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 28, 2012 1:17 PM in response to Dyan

    Oh so totally agree, Dyan!

    I am happy for Yvan, too, as he seems to get the whole Versions and Auto Save thing.  I am so totally in the "I don't get it!" group, and just so happy that I did not, or have to yet, upgrade to Lion!!

     

    Maybe, the Apple folks will get it, maybe, just maybe.  I would really like that.  One can hope.

  • by KOENIG Yvan,

    KOENIG Yvan Feb 28, 2012 1:27 PM in response to linda2009
    Level 8 (41,790 points)
    Feb 28, 2012 1:27 PM in response to linda2009

    I may just repeat that You didn't paid to design the apps. Just to use what Apple is delivering.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

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