Q: What happened to Save As?

I may just repeat that You didn't paid to design the apps.

Have you never, in your entire life, heard of such a thing as customer feedback?

Have you never, in your entire life, seen a company change things according to that feedback?

If so, I sure would be interested in learning what planet you're participating in these forums from.

Yvan.   

you are so wrong!!   I paid for numbers and pages and have every time a new version came out.  But not any more until this gets fixed.

I think I will go back to excel and word.   I still have the disc's from both of the original version 1's back in the dark ages.  guess they are no good anymore.  But will now buy the new Office 2011.

to all of you keep up the battle....

If you still have warranty..   call and complain that the software does not work properly anymore..  complain complain complain.

It is almost as if Apple is starting do what Microsoft did when they became to big..... and controlled a certain sector of the market.   

cheers Elo

I am not sure  if I am more upset with apple or yvan

I will not reproduce them one more time, I repeat that what you write doesn't match the terms of the Licence which you accepted when you installed the applications.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

I repeat that I earnt my life during 30 years selling my potteries.

If a customer had the very bad idea to tell me « would be fine to change this or that », he was instantaneously kicked out of the shop.

As far as I know, Vallauris is on the same planet than the USA.

Since 1943/12/31, I'm pig headed and I will not change now.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

I repeat that what you write doesn't match the terms of the License which you accepted when you installed the applications.

Okay, let's put an end to this nonsense you also repeat ad nauseam. Yes, the license for all software is that you are using it on a lease, not as an owner. You've repeatedly used this stance as "proof" that Apple can do whatever they want with the software and you are less than mud to them.

Maybe you should learn something about what you're using for an argument before doing so. All software is leased so you cannot own it. If you were to actually own software you purchase, you could make a very good case in court that you should also then have access to the source code. After all, you own it.

The lease has nothing to do with a customer's right to ask for, or demand changes to a product they purchased based on their needs.

Yvan, maybe you are pig headed, but I am not a Lemming!

Just because I agreed to the license, doesn't mean I can't choose to let Apple know that I don't care for something.  I understand that I can't make them change a thing, but I can only hope they will listen.

It appears that you were unable to read what I highlighted.

So I make a new attempt. I hope that this time you will be able to read and understand.

8. disclaimer of warranties.

a. You expressly acknowledge and agree that use of the Apple software and services is at your sole risk and that the entire risk as to satisfactory quality, performance, accuracy and effort is with you.

Except for the limited warranty on media set forth above and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, the Apple software and services are provided “as is”, with all faults and without warranty of any kind , and Apple and Apple's licensors (collectively referred to as “Apple” for the purposes of sections 8 and 9) hereby disclaim all warranties and conditions with respect to the Apple software and services, either express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties and/or conditions of merchantability, of satisfactory quality, of fitness for a particular purpose, of accuracy, of quiet enjoyment, and non-infringement of third party rights. Apple does not warrant against interference with your enjoyment of the Apple software or services, that the functions contained in the Apple software or services will meet your requirements, that the operation of the Apple software or services will be uninterrupted or error-free, or that defects in the Apple software or services will be corrected.

Given that, I really can't understand what you are hoping.

What you are ranting against is clearly excluded of the warranty.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

So what? What don't you understand about the concept of customer feedback?

Accepting software "the way it is" doesn't mean you have no say in it's development or the ability to suggest changes. Are you really so dense when it comes such to common business practices?

You are free to hope but you are doing that since August 2011.

There was no change brought since this date and given what is written here and there there is no change about that in 10.8 ( just the fact that Scripts Editor is now embedding the new scheme).

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 28 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

So I take a little vacation from these forums from time to time, and then I check back in, with the faint hope that a cure for idiocy might have been developed in the interim.

Sadly, I am disappointed again.

Yvan, how exactly do you make the leap from the highlighted passages you took so much time to quote and the notion that Apple customers are somehow not permitted to express their frustration with Apple products?

Really...please share your logical thought process that led you to this conclusion. I'm due for a good laugh, and you've always come through for me.

You are free to write what you want.

I'm free to write what I want which is mainly that ranting here against features, which are perfectly matchings the license which you accepted, you are wasting your time which seems so precious.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 29 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Yvan, I fully appreciate your focus on the license - that it is what it is. My position is to get to what the customer WANTS, not what the license says. The license can easilly be changed if Apple wants it to, if it wants to fully serve its customers.

So, again, the customer wants a simple "Save As" feature incorporated into the system. Bring on the new features - fine - but give me a chance to learn these new features before you take away the tried and true.

It seems that you don't understand.

You are perfectly free to want this or that but it's not you which decide.

Apple if free to do what it want.

I already posted the late Guidelines which clearly don't match your wishes.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 29 février 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Hi:

Yvan ..   You are now starting to get rude and inconsiderate to other individuals posting on this discussion.  Dyan, Dchord have every right to list their view without your preaching and repetitive comments.

I for one would appreciate it if you would no longer make any more entries or comments unless you have something new and  positive to bring to the table.

By positive I mean comments to help us move to discuss how to we can persuade Apple to change the path they are taking.

I do not want to hear any more of the preaching.  We have all heard it enough times.

We all know what apple have done, what they have documented.

Lets get on with a positive and progressive discussion.

Yvan:  I can see from the level and points you have achieved that you have provided many individuals with good positive help and information.  Do not ruin your good reputation.  Sometimes one must back off on an issue and see what develops even if we do not agree.  

Please let others do the talking for a while.

cheers elo

Elo here...  more research

Pixelmator have implemented Versions and while there are those who like it there are also many who do not. There are long discussion on their support site concerning the many problems developers are having with their day to day workflow.  There are also some positive comments but they seem to be from more casual users.  I will follow up on their site.

I suggest that if any of you use other products see what the discussion boards say and ask the company what their intent is.  Then let them know your opininon.  This is the only way to force a change in plans/or implement an optional out of the feature. 

That is what I would like to see.  A menu command or preference pane feature giving the CUSTOMER  the option to opt out. 

One pixelmator user  said that if you want to sell on the MAC APPstore your will be required to change to Versions(at this point in time).  He also said buy Gimp.(not an easy product to use)  I wait anxiously to see what Adobe will do with PSElements.

Cheers elo

cheers elo