Q: What happened to Save As?

Not all change is easy, but the "save as" item in the file menu has only been replaced by the "duplicate" menu item, and you don't neccesarily have to save the duplicate as it auto-saves for you, easy right?

I don't think the educational industry will make the huge mistake of turning to the dark side just because there is something they can not adopt to. I thought education is all about adopting?

Post your grievances to apple.com/feedback as Apple will not look here...

Not exactly, Mark.

You can use the new Duplicate menu item, but here is what happens.  The original item remains open and you now have 2 windows open. 

If you want only to work on the new one without the other one being in your way, you have to return to it to click to close it. 

That may seem like a trivial matter, but it also comes with a warning.  Unless the original document that you duplicated is old enough to be LOCKED from auto-save, then the mere fact that it is open will result in new auto-saved "versions" of that document too.  So if you were thinking about your original as something that was named and dated and does not need to be altered, you could be in for a surprise when you go looking for it by date.

Mark23 wrote:

 

Not all change is easy, but the "save as" item in the file menu has only been replaced by the "duplicate" menu item, and you don't neccesarily have to save the duplicate as it auto-saves for you, easy right?

No, not easy. More complex, involving several additional and annoying steps. (And of course, you have to eventually Save the duplicate at least once if you want to give it a unique name. You're not going to leave it hanging around indefinitely without identifying it in some way.)

In addition, Save As, when invoked in Snow Leopard, always opens up a dialog box with the same location as the original file (which is where you want to save your new document in most cases).

But when you first save a Duplicated document in Lion, the dialog box opens in a totally unrelated location that has nothing to do with the work you're now doing. You must then manually navigate to where you want to save your Duplicated file.

I understand the advantages of Auto Save and Versioning in some instances. But under other circumstances, it makes things worse instead of better. In those circumstances, the user should be able to disable this new paradigm and go back to the way that worked just fine on the Mac for 37 years.

 

Post your grievances to apple.com/feedback as Apple will not look here...

And you know this...how? Do you seriously believe that Apple would create a forum such as this, and yet not a single Apple employee would ever have the curiosity to see what's going on in it?

And by the way, we all posted to Apple's feedback channel long, long ago about this.

I'm starting to understand why it is not logical

Earlier on the day, it's almost midnight on this side of the globe, I was indeed somewhat irritated about this particular feature of Lion.

I think Apple made some good changed and some bad ones as well in Lion, although the client version of Lion is not merely as bad as the server version of Lion, with the new administration tools not quite passing along the correct information to the administrator computer and therefor making administration somewhat of a pain as well as services refusing to work at least in my environment.

Where there is work in progress errors are made more often than when a company would be at a complete stop.

I will file a feature request at apple.com/feedback as well, so when complaints do pile up, they'll change it back or refine it so that all complaints are addressed.

So if you were thinking about your original as something that was named and dated and does not need to be altered, you could be in for a surprise when you go looking for it by date.

Hi,

But wait Dennis, just for clarity:

If I leave the original doc open as is, it won't change by itself,

while i continue editing the duplicate doc, won't it?

Omar KN

Hi:

apple.com/feedback

I have sent feature change requests to apple too.

just remember to send one for each and every application in question    pages, numbers, and preview.

for the record..   more research   did a trial version tonight.... 

PIXELMATOR   they have incorperated all the features of Version and removed SAVE AS

waiting to see  ADOBE PSE....????

cheers..

Flood them on the feedback page 'apple.com/feedback' with the same effort that everyone is putting into these forums and we will get a result.

If you can put 10 posts on a forum - do the same on the feedback pages and we should FLOOD them with our complaints.

Bring back 'Save As'

Don't listen to any more arguments just act!

Um, without doing a search because I'M WAY TOO LAZY, which version of Numbers got rid of the "Save As" feature?  I have numbers '09 and I still have it.  I'm also not going to buy an updated version of Numbers until Apple reverts back to the intelligent way of "save as" which is in virtually every consumer software platform instead of creating another useless phrase users have to remember to supplant it JUST for Apple Numbers.

dunno how to delete a post so im just going to write this pointless elongated sentence without a period at the end

>which version of Numbers got rid of the "Save As" feature?

Hi Bruce,

You still "have it" because you're on Snow Leopard,

once you 're on Lion, "Save As" will be gone.

Omar KN

Omar.KN wrote:

 

>which version of Numbers got rid of the "Save As" feature?

 

 

Hi Bruce,

 

You still "have it" because you're on Snow Leopard,

 

once you 're on Lion, "Save As" will be gone.

 

Omar KN

oh...MY GOD.  You are so right.  I'm on 10.6.8.  I had to look up Snow Leopard vs Lion considering there is absolutely no hierarchical value between wild cats (yet there are with numbers thanks wikipedia associating the numbers with all of these wild creatures Apple uses to confuse me).

Anyway, I guess I might as well skip to the mountain lion then...or just wait for the Frost Bite Kitten or whatever comes next to come out.

Hi; 

found the following quotes on Adobe web site re Lion..

Quote.....

Support for Mac OS 10.7 new features

Mac OS 10.7 has some exciting new features such as Autosave, Restore, Versioning, Full Screen Mode, and more multi-touch gestures. For Adobe applications to fully support these features, additional product development is required. Adobe is working to address this issue. For related information, see Mac OSX 10.7 preference to "Restore windows when quitting and re-opening apps" doesn't work with Adobe applications.

I suggest that anyone wishing to discourage Adobe from going down the version route only without an optout send them an email to the feature request form.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform&promoid=EWQQL

cheers elo

Thank you Barry for that advice. I was getting a little frustrated by the discussion and you brought some light to it. A place to voice my concerns were Apple will actually hear it. I for the most part really love Lion, but as it has been mentioned above, there are a few things I could do with out. The lack of a "Save As" option may not be the end of the world and Apple may be just looking toward the future, but I think in the spirit of Apple they should really give us, the users, the choice, not a dictatorial stance. That's what I have always loved about Apple, they really seemed to consider the user. This doesn't seem to be the case here.

Whether it's the way things are going, or not, there is usually a way to choose in the preference pain, a way to restore old settings in the new apps, so you, the user, have a choice, to move forward, or not. Since this isn't the case here, people are actually making apps to help you dissable Lion features. That should be enough to catch Apples attention right there. I just installed an simple add on to the preference pain, that will let me decide, which apps I actually let resume where I left off, when I re-open them. That feature was driving me nuts.  Resume can be nice, but not with all my apps. So when people start making apps to disable your new features, I think that speaks for itself.

I think that if enough people actually bring this to Apples attention, not just the forums, something may actually come of it. They have changed things in the past due to cumstomer, disatisfaction. (ie, getting rid of the mighty mouse. Good ridance. They need to get rid of the scroll ball all together.) though it usually takes them awhile. I would hope Apple would at least give us a choice, instead of making that decision for us. That does seem so.... Microsoft.

Here's the only reason why Apple made a "Save As…" command in classic Mac OS in the first place:

How this got carried over to Mac OS X is staggering, considering that the first machines that Mac OS X 10.0 ran on didn't even include a floppy drive!

After you get over the realisation that this is an outdated and often heavily abused command for aiding in the manual saving of document data to removable floppy disks, you'll see why it was not suitable for the implementation of the Auto-Save and Resume features of OS X Lion.

What I have been saying all along in this discussion is that what you're dealing with here is a mindset, and not a technical issue; Apple has already dealt with the latter.

Free your mind!

—tonza

How interesting that you're so certain how everyone else in the world works! Because you can post a screenshot from 25 years ago, I guess the issue is settled, eh?

Honestly, I had no idea that I've been "abusing" a Mac command since 1988. (LOL, what exactly does that mean?) Here all this time I thought I was simply getting my work done in an efficient manner when I used Save As. Silly me!

I wouldn't presume to tell you that your way of working on a Mac is screwed up. If you told me "This is the method that works for me" I would accept your statement...even if your way was different from mine. Your use of the phrase "only reason" demonstrates clearly that you have no idea about anyone's workflow other than your own. Perhaps it's you who needs to "free your mind."

The thing is, we're not talking about some obscure or convoluted way of working on the Mac. We're talking about a way that has been employed by millions of Mac users...for as many as 27 years.

Most of us have evaluated the new saving paradigm, and have come to the conclusion that the old way works better for us. Furthermore, many concrete examples have been posted of how the new paradigm causes serious problems that go beyond just being inconvenienced or having to learn a new way of doing things.

When these examples are posted, folks like you just look the other way and say "Move along, folks...nothing to see here!"

This is a very simple issue. The new saving paradigm (along with the concurrent loss of Save As) is the single greatest change in how one works on a Mac in the history of the platform. No one has yet put forth a candidate for a more radical one, though I've asked many times. (Notice I said "How one works on a Mac." I don't want to hear about under-the-hood or eye candy changes...I'm talking about user interaction.)

Nor, in my experience, has a change ever generated as much angst and controversy in the Mac community as this one has. (Again, when I've asked for equivalent examples, the silence has been deafening.)

For those who like the new way of doing things...great! I have no problem with continuing to make it the default on Lion and future OSes. But give experienced users the option to disable it and remain with the saving scheme that worked just fine for 27 years.

I've also asked what's wrong with this idea. Those few who have actually attempted an answer (as opposed to ignoring the question) have put forth objections that are easily proven to be baseless.