Q: What happened to Save As?

Thank goodness Adobe agrees. In case you hadn't seen it, here's post of mine from another thread.

Just to show that Autosave/Versions can be done right, download and install the Adobe Photoshop CS6 beta, which can be run as a 30 day trial.

In the preferences, you can choose to turn Autosave on or off. With it on, you have a sub choice where can even specify how much time it waits before saving a version so it's not trying to save every little thing you do.

Here's the best part. Even with Autosave on, Save As is still in the menus. They didn't even bother with Apple's way of doing Duplicate since there has been a Duplicate feature in PS for decades.

So you have the best combination of how this should work. Save As for quick change off in a new direction and still being able to use Autosave if you want to. Someone at Apple has a serious bug about how they think user's should manage their work, in regards to Apple's own apps. Adobe clearly, and correctly understands that it's up to the user to decide that, not the OS.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

DChord568 wrote:

 

Not a single one of Lion's defenders has answered these questions — including the loudest of the bunch, whom we've just heard from again here. While they talk big otherwise, they don't have the courage to address these questions...they just ignore them. (Watch now as this happens yet again.)

 

I apologizes but I was asked by Apple to stop responding to your questions.

As they own these discussions forum I had no other choice than doing what they want.

 

I passed the info to one oponent but he didn't pass it to yourself and choose to alert Apple about the fact that I posted to his mailbox.

This strikes me as extremely curious.

Since Apple representatvies obviously look in on these threads to the extent they take it upon themselves to control their content, I would invite an Apple representative to contact me personally (something they have never done) as they have you, to explain why they asked this of you.

I'm not looking for a fight — I'm merely looking for as full an exploration of this topic as possible. If Apple is going to get into the business of limiting free speech, then this won't happen.

Bravo to Adobe!  I was very concerned that Adobe would lead the parade of major software developers adopting Apple's narrow-minded decision.  I am greatly relieved to know that Adobe is courageous and progressive and considers how people actually use their software products.

Dennis Burnham wrote:

 

I have repeatedly asked for anyone to point out another change in the history of working on a Mac that is as radical as the change in Saving paradigm introduced in Lion. I have repeatedly asked for anyone to point out a change that has resulted in a greater uproar from the Mac community than this one.

 

I suspect you wanted your answer from one of the defenders of Lion, but I will give you this perspective, using hardware, not software, as an example of radical changes.

 

When Apple brought out the first iMac, it caused an uproar by the absence of a "floppy" disk drive.  Apple's position was that if it's small enough to fit on a diskette, you can email it, and if it's bigger than what fits on a diskette, you should be using CD's.   People who had a library of "stuff"  (including lots of pre-OS-X installation software that still ran on the first iMac under System 9) had to make some kind of connection to a legacy machine or maybe purchase a USB accessory.   But, a major difference between that example and the subject of this thread is that you had the choice of buying an iMac with full knowledge what you were getting into.  Not quite the same with the Lion upgrade.

I appreciate your answer, and I anticipated that if anyone ever attempted to answer my question, the elmination of the floppy drive would be the most likely candidate.

In addition to the difference between this situation and the elimination of Save As which you rightly point out, there's more. First, auxillary floppy drives were available for purchase for those who had legacy documents stored on floppies or still needed them for software installation. So that enhanced the choices available to users.

More important, within a relatively short time, a replacement for the floppy disk/drive paradigm — the USB thumb drive — came along that was several orders of magnitude superior to the old technology. Smaller, usable on any computer, and capable of storing way more data. The complaints about removal of the floppy drive dropped to virtually zero in short order.

Similarly, Apple could now make the complaints about the change in Saving functionality diminish to zero by making Auto Save/Versioning the default behavior, but allowing users to disable it in favor of the old paradigm.

Another of my many questions that remains unanswered is why this is a bad idea.

Adobe's autosave is their own non-OS-native solution and meant only for post-crash recovery purposes, am I right?

Outstanding news about Adobe's implementation!

The Art Director at our agency uses Illustrator (exlusively, for everything...but that's another discussion!). I was, frankly, worried to death that Adobe would adapt Apple's "my way or the highway" approach to saving, which would have been a complete disaster given the way he works.

At least I know that if the day comes when his hardware must be replaced, he can move to Lion with no worries.

Now if we could only get a similar implementation for iWork apps....

Thanks again, Kurt, for letting us know about this.

Very happy with Adobe right now!

Imagine a huge image in Photoshop, getting saved as versions every time you press Command+S. If you worked on it for many hours the total filesize would end up in many gigabytes! It will get even worse when you are painting in Photoshop.

Lion's version style saving is only good for text documents not images.

samhaque wrote:

 

Lion's version style saving is only good for text documents not images.

It's not good for them, either, if the price paid is the loss of Save As.

DChord568 wrote:

 

samhaque wrote:

 

Lion's version style saving is only good for text documents not images.

 

It's not good for them, either, if the price paid is the loss of Save As.

Very true.

Adobe's autosave is their own non-OS-native solution and meant only for post-crash recovery purposes, am I right?

I would presume it's linked to Lion's Autosave function since Adobe has never before even had an autosave feature in Photoshop. I don't recall seeing any kind of autosave in any of their products. If they are there, then I've always turned them off as one of my very first moves after installing, and have just plain forgotten it's there.

I have the CS6 beta installed in Lion, but haven't played with it much yet. I'll have to turn Autosave on using a dummy image and see if I end up with the results you would expect in Lion. That is, your image is saved in its last state whether you pressed Command+S or not; and if there are versions you can revert to, or revert to the previous original state. I'll let you know the results if someone else doesn't do it first.

That's good news Kurt. So now we have Adobe and Lemkesoft who have provided the option to turn autosave off, and we have Realmac and Karelia who are studying it and likely to provide the option if and when they implement the change. Other developers will follow suit in order to keep their users happy.

You can bet that Mac will start to notice the drift away from Numbers and Pages and for certain they are well aware of the issue. In any case there are plenty of options to Numbers and Pages. I don't use either any more, and I got rid of the new (trial) version of Pixelmator because the old one works just fine.

Time will sort this problem out.

DChord, I also am curious to know why they asked Koenig to stop! Perhaps they didn't agree with all the assertions he was making about their policy.

Look at my message dated :

11 avr. 2012 08:07 (in response to Dennis Burnham)

You will see that it was edited by Hosts.

If you want details, send a mail to my mailbox (click my blue name to get my address)

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 11 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Curiouser and curiouser! So what did they edit out? or In?

I guess that those who subscribed to this thread received my entire message.

You may send a mail to my mailbox (click my blue name).

I will send you the entire message.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 11 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

markinbali wrote:

 

Curiouser and curiouser! So what did they edit out? or In?

They edited out a gratuitous, kind of smart-*** personal remark Yvan made at the end of his post. The rest of it was unchanged.

I'm not being at all smug about this; I've been guilty of similar remarks in my own posts, though they were made out of frustration when people refused to address points I had made.

The point is, this sort of thing should not preclude discussion of the substance of this thread, which is why we're all here.