Q: What happened to Save As?

Yep, just do as you're told. Submit and conform. Thats what Apple wants from us anyway, and they are not going to change. Trust OS X to at least not lose your work and use Duplicate > Save as a workaround for Save-As. Then move on with your life. These discussions obviously don't help to change or improve anything.

samhaque wrote:

 

These discussions obviously don't help to change or improve anything.

It's what I wrote since the beginning.

The system's behaviour is changed and it will not move back.

The only difference is that you think that these changes are bad and that Apple engineers and some users like me think that they are good.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 11 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

I think we should continue to voice our opposition to this change that Apple has made.  Apple is a company and relies on its customers to stay in business.  Look around the world, companies do respond to what their customers say.  Just because someone like Yvan says Apple will never change this, and they have not announced any plans to change it yet, does not mean we should shut up.

Apple can be responsive and it is a good thing for customers to let Apple know what they want, over and over again.

BRING BACK SAVE AS...

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

samhaque wrote:

 

These discussions obviously don't help to change or improve anything.

 

The only difference is that you think that these changes are bad and that Apple engineers and some users like me think that they are good.

 

Actually I hated it at first, but realised Save-As is still there in a round about way. So I'm ok with it as long as I don't lose my work. I just think removal of the actual "Save As" item from the menu was a dumb thing to do. Because now we have to first duplicate then save to acheive save-as.

All,

This is early and possibly unreliable but I did call Apple Customer Service to discuss this and another issue. I have to say I felt badly for the poor tech on the other end of the line. He has heard the "Save As" complaint many, many times. He says Apple does realize we are not happy and there is a possible compromise on the way.

Again, this is early info - and this may not happen at all - but it was gratifying to hear that we are being heard. Next, wait for the results...we will see but I am more hopeful than I have been that some kind of compromise is in the works.

I think Apple won't read these discussions and won't listen to disappointed users.

They have become too arrogant. Luckily they are not the only phone-computer-software producer in the world.

As I previously said, I am moving back to Linux where I do whatever I do with Mac (and where I am FREE to customize whatever I want). I also bought an Android phone and it has nothing less than the iPhone (except the retina display, but... it's phone, not a giant screen TV).

I would suggest stopping complaining here, send a feedback to Apple and move to other products that today are better, for one reason or another.

Hi elo here         

trust me.    Apple does at times read these discussions.  I know they read one of my last posts.

keep the pressure it up.  But do not infringe on any

"Discussion of Apple Policies, Procedures or Decisions

Off-topic or non-technical posts"     Keep it to the technical issues.......

And I do agree with them or this will become a free for all.  

This why I apologized in my second post seconds later before they obviously read my post.  I knew after hitting enter that I had stepped over the line.

cheers elo

I am delighted to learn that Apple is watching this thread.  Perhaps while moderating certain content, the point we have all been making is also getting through to them.

Although there has certainly been some over-the-line commentary by some, it has not been so offensive as to require censorship.  Of course, I can't go back and read what has been deleted.  I agree we should stick to the technical issues because it will make it much easier for Apple engineers to understand the points being made on either side of this discussion.

The closer we get to the release of Mountain Lion, the more important this becomes.  if they are serious about making the software user friendly and giving the customer as many options as possible, I hope they will see the sense of restoring SAVE AS for those who want it, without denying anybody the ability to jump into the new auto-saved Versions if they want that too.

As strong as my opinion has been about the need for SAVE AS, I have not said that I would never use or benefit from the newer method in certain situations.  Some documents benefit from it, others don't.

I always make this wager when I am really confident but willing to lose the bet:  I'll bet on the life of my ex wife that every participant in this thread would be satisfied and silent if we had CHOICE.

Dennis Burnham wrote:

 

..giving the customer as many options as possible..

Apple doesn't do that.

Also, why are you people so scared of saying something wrong in here suddenly? They're not going to come knocking on your door and take your Macs away.

Hi elo

my comments were quite reasonable and in spite of what I was told check my last couple of notes still there......

cheers elo

Stefano,

Linux - good, Android - good, I have an android phone myself, but the main reason to own a Mac is to use Mac software, and OS 10, the best operating system so far for personal computing, and the easiest for the average layman to install and use.

This thread is about one issue, the disappearance of Save as... , which unfortunately has made OS 10 a little less user friendly than it was before.

Sure users will move to products which suit them better, if they can afford to abandon existing hardware and software, but personally I do not see any system that betters OS 10 at present, even with the recent changes. But then again, who can foresee the future. Google AndroidChrome for Desktop, for example, is on the horizon!

We like to assume that Apple, with the culture instilled by Steve Jobs, can not only predict the future but create it, and therefore we assume that the changes in Lion are all part of an impending huge leap forward which once again will place them way ahead of the rest of the field. This might well be the case, but do not assume that they are not, at the same time, monitoring user satisfaction.

The Black Hand Gang are adamant that Apple will not change their master plan - of course they won't, but there is nothing to stop them tweaking it a bit here and there, for example, by providing a Save as... option in preferences.

Time will tell.

Mark,

I'd be happy to continue using Mac. But after almost one year since Lion's release we still have mandatory autosave/version/dupicate crap for Apple's applications.

I am afraid they will never provide choice.

So I am movin toward another direction and I am happy.

I may get back one day or another. For sure I expect my computer to behave differently than a phone.

Oh come on, is it really that big of a problem that you have to stop using OS X and Macs alltogether? Its a big change and maybe expense for something that has a workaround. Just duplicate and save.

Sam,

It depends on what applications you use, and also whether you like to work in a simple and logical way where you know exactly where your files are and what's happening to them instead of blindly trusting the system. If you work with large graphics files it really is a pain. I always make a duplicate of the entire directory of files I want to work on before I start so I'm safe. What could be simpler than that? I can see an advantage in having autosave but it should be an option. As for the rest of it - the duplicate and save, and the save a version routine - I still can not see the point. The only purpose it seems to serve is to satisfy the software engineers' desire to create mystique! Stefano's view of it as "crap" is shared by many. Others have described it as "bloatware". I like Dennis's description best - a classic "ain't broke don't fixit" example.

My own workaraund is just to avoid using apps that have the new feature, and for that reason I junked the new version of Pixelmator. I am now thinking of switching from Pixelmator to Photoshop since they have provided the option we are asking for.

I do respect Stefano's decision, and to tell the truth, I have postponed my purchase of a new Macbook Pro until Apple's direction becomes more clear. My instinct tells me that Apple might resolve our problem in some unexpected way and so I am prepared to wait and see.

Stefano, how easy is it to install Linux?

Mark,

I agree with most of it. I came to this thread at first because I wasn't happy. But I'm pretty used to it now. I don't miss it.

This is how I'm seeing this: as always, Apple is getting ready for the future before everyone else. This iOS style autosaving and version saving is going to be very useful when everyone has SSDs instead of HDDs. Currently every OS access HDD as seldom as possible, because constantly accessing HDDs is unhealthy for it in all sorts of ways. With SSDs, I don't think that is an issue. So this autosave and versions will only give you more options for reverting back to a previous state.

Another point is, as someone said earlier, image files and documents don't get large because of this. Versions are not saved with the file. Maybe Lion takes up some extra space because of the versions saved but I'm sure it won't be something problematic on a 500+ GB drives Macs come with today.

Companies like Adobe probably won't part with the traditional ways that easily.

I just think that moving away from OS X because of this is going to be a huge hassle! There are all sorts of weird annoying issues with all other OSes. Windows 7 is pretty stable but still it drove me nuts enough to finally switch to Mac 2 months ago. Linux is good but definitely not as good as OS X. Since you are asking how easy it is to install Linux, I assume you have not used it much or not at all. In that case you will probably be miserable for months until you have everything figured out and have all the apps there working as you need them to.

Just my 2 cents on the troubles of leaving OS X.