Q: What happened to Save As?

Hello Samhaque

save as is only one of the "features" that are making my workflows less smooth.

Autosave/Versions/Duplicate is enough to stop using iWorks and moving to sth else for office (not for the OS itself of course).

I personally dislike the direction Apple took since Lion. I believe a computer should be different from a phone. Have you seen the ML preview? Isn't it embarassing to define Notes, Messages and Reminders as "OS innovation"?

Isn't it stupid to emphasize Air Mirroring (with a 100$ Apple TV) when you can do the same with a 5$ HDMI cable?

Add to this the fact that MobileMe worked perfectly for years and I was never able to make iCloud work without losing part of my contacts and the picture is clear: Apple is going its direction. Fair enough. For me it doesn't work, so it is time to change.

As I said, I may come back.

Mark, of course MacOS is easier than Linux in installation and configuration.

On the other hand in Lx you can configure every little thing of the OS (e.g., if you don't like the new version of the GUI you can use the old GUI in the latest kernel).

I would suggest to install VirtualBox (free) and on top of that a Linux distro (IMHO Ubuntu is the easiest to start, Fedora is fine, avoid Gentoo or Debian at the beginning). Give it a try, but if you are happy with OSX stay with it.

Just a final note to Autosave/Versions: i define "crap" the way it is implemented, not the concept behind it.

CVS is available since the beginning of the '90s and the concept is great.

I use versioning control since 1998 and it is great. The big problem with Apple implementation is that the OS decides when to save a new version, not the user. This causes 2 kinds of problems:

1. the system can save changer user did NOT want to save (most of the complaining people noticed this)

2. saving a new version every 5 minutes makes a LOT of versions in which is very hard to find the "good" one

Real versioning systems work this way:

1. User can save local files as usual (old autosave can be used here for recovery purposes).

2. When user wants to save a new version he explicitly "commits" the file (with an associated comment - e.g. "presentation flow revised for management")

3. When needed to roll back to a previous version, insead of the star wars interface user sees the comments describing the changes in the various versions and can retrieve a specific file (even without replacing the current one)

This process worked well for over 20 years and demonstrated to be efficient.

Does anybody work on a 300 MB Keynote file for 5 days? How many versions are there of the file? Can you find the right version in the star wars screen when you need it?

If Apple implemented sth like this (Save, Save As, Save/Commit a version, NEVER save a version automatically) it would be perfect.

Happy week-end to everybody

S.

Hi:

My past job (the dark ages) meant that I (and staff) had to acquire software and hardware  for many users (thousands ) (IBM mainframe and PC's). Our development users (in the dark ages) also had a  Versions and Auto Backup (daily not continuous all the time) made available to them with recovery available by next day.  But they could decide what/when to use it themselves, and still go on as they wanted.

A full evaluation of software was done based on USERS needs first.  We looked at many things and if a product did not offer backup protection, the right features, etc then why buy it/ why use it?  If we had to use it for technical reasons(limit its use)

In the world of apple there are basically two types of program products.  1.  Apple platform only products  and  2. cross platform products.

I do not see the cross platform products converting to the new version system without an opt-in/out as the Windows/Linux general users would not accept it nor would all the industrial software users running on windows/linux.

Therefore what I have now done is look at my workflow and selected the products that meet my needs with minimum pain.

ei.  I use Photoshop(PSE)(no versions), not pixelmator

              I will use Microsoft Office/NeoOffice (Versions opt-out/in included) instead of Pages and Numbers

                    I would use any web builder product  instead of Sandvox.  at the moment I use Freway Pro

I for one will miss Pages'  "Page Layout Capabilities"       I  have moved to Bean for word processing

Nothing beats Bento for ease of use.

Look at each tool and function you use...    then choose a tool that suits you

there are plenty of alternatives out there.  Not all as beautiful as Pages and Numbers.  But they all get the job done.

Stay with OSX and use the products etc  that brought you there in the first place.

I believe very few users moved to Apple to use pages and numbers.  Large businesses do not use the two products, not compatible enough with the world at large.

So while I am concerned about apple's path at the moment and apparent lack of consideration for those of us who find Versions unusable, I will continue to use the OX system for other reasons.

It should be noted that  Graphic Converter is no longer on the app stores'  "App enhanced for OSX Lion list" but still available to purchase

finally    Preview    "what a fantastic piece of software nothing beats it   ( like a "Swiss Army Knife" does everything just like Graphic Converter (only on apple)     hmmmm   maybe I have found an alternative to use....)

I however will not move to Windows..   I see too many users suffer especially the consumer users as they do not know how to use the software....??????

I hope apple will offer us an alternative soon or a slightly less intrusive Version system that will let me select my own level of backup)

every environment has its own downside....

cheers elo

elol wrote:

 

It should be noted that  Graphic Converter is no longer on the app stores'  "App enhanced for OSX Lion list" but still available to purchase

Normal, I asked Apple to check if it's really matching the rules which it doesn't.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 14 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Yvan:

I am really sorry and sad to hear that you actually asked apple to check them out.

Most professional developer/analyst(s) would have commended Graphic Converter's developer LEMKESOFT  on doing such a neat smooth alternative while meeting everyone's requirements.

cheers elo

I'm not a professional developer.

LEMKESOFT didn't need to receive a message of mine, they are supposed to be aware of the rule.

If they wish to return in the list, they know what they must do.

The rule is the same for everybody selling thru the MAS.

Adobe never matched the mac OS X standards so I don't assume that they will match them more this time.

In fact, I wished to know if Apple was really decided to stick to the new scheme.

Now I know.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 14 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

speaking for myself, I have no intention of abandoning OS-X ... I suppose if that was my conclusion, I would not have been so devoted to this thread with the hope, if not expectation, that we can influence things in a future version update or patch.  I suppose Apple can gauge dissatisfaction more readily if people leave and go elsewhere, but in my opinion, going to another OS is jumping froma frying pan into a fire, and even that is an unfair assessment of Lion.  There are many, many benefits and we (now speaking for those who agree with me) just want the OS to be the best it can be.

I think much can be learned by discussing how the desktop computer is NOT a mobile device and should not be expected to behave like one.

I think much can be learned by discussing how the desktop computer is NOT a mobile device and should not be expected to behave like one.

Exactly! I've mentioned it before, but my similar take on that is my Mac is NOT a giant iPad, and I do not want it to behave like one. They are two very different types of computers with very different uses.

Dennis:

you are right on.

I for one is using the Ipad for a whole series of other things than my day to day activities.

I use it when I go to bed and can not sleep  (angry birds)  but far more important

I use it when I travel, see clients, potential clients    use it to show them what I can offer in the arts  (my life in the past few years).  Look at invoices, inventory lists.    (Bento)  etc..... Evernote     fantastic   take an image of anything save it and it is available....  take a photo of an invoice, anything then store it....  could not carry a computer around like that     and ten hours of battery..

I have tried the products such as pages, numbers, photoshop etc on the Ipad.     not useable for production work at all as far as I am concerned       lots of good uses...

In fact I look for products where I can share data easily... I takea invoices with me (created with numbers) that I show on the Ipad  to a client it must always be identical to the invoice on my main machine.  (hopefully my partner have not opened the invoice and created another version?)  which one do I use?  how do I find the right one?

cheers elo

I agree with you - elol, Kurt, and Dennis.  I don't want my MacBook or Mac Mini to be another iPad or iPhone!!  It needs to be different!  I going to still hope that Apple will recognize that some users just want the options.

I like GraphicConverter and will continue to support them.  They work hard to make their product superior.

Yvan, you can be very helpful with iWorks issues and I have followed your suggestions several times; and, I do appreciate it all.  But, sometimes things are not so black and white - sometimes there are grey areas.  I know you keep saying that Apple won't change their minds about this Save As - Versions, etc.  But, haven't they "changed" a lot of things over the years?  Everything changes and none of us know the future!  Please, just let me say this without getting on my case.  I really do appreciate all the help you lend to other users.  Have a great day.

Dennis Burnham wrote:

 

going to another OS is jumping froma frying pan into a fire, and even that is an unfair assessment of Lion.  There are many, many benefits and we (now speaking for those who agree with me) just want the OS to be the best it can be.

 

Thats exactly how it is! Leaving OS X is definitely not an option.

I have a feeling, couple of years from now, we will laugh at ourselves for worrying so much about these changes though. Because the face of desktop and laptop systems are changing. Its pathetic that we carry around a CD drive with our MBPs now. Surely, next release of MBPs won't have this thing. I'm super excited to see what Apple does with that huge space.

SSDs can be used in a whole new way than HDDs.

If you think about it, yes MBP is going to become lot more like iPad. Its inevitable, unstoppable. So I don't really think Lion's marriage with iOS is going to be such a bad thing. Apple is doing it a bit early maybe, and without telling us why. But its pretty obvious now. Laptops are just going to be more powerful versions of iPad, utilising the full OS, but with same form of gutts.

So its sad to see this is causing enough headache for some people to want to leave OS X. I'm sure just switching some apps would do the trick, as elol explained it.

Lion OS X is quite ok in many ways, and I'll stick to it (not much choice here).

The removal of SAVE AS is not a catastrophe, but it is a hassle, even a slight headache.

Why do something awkward when it was working as smooth as pineapple for years?!

And I keep Lion OS X although the demise of SAVE AS is not the only wierd and unexpainable change in the OS,

for example in Lion, I cannot pin a simple textdocument in the Finder left column (Favorites) - only folders - weird - not a userfriendly improvement at all, which the poor guys at the Apple support cannot explain either.

Further Mission Control is slow, and unintelligent, and so on.

So Apple has a lot to do to just bring us back to the Snow Leopard user-level.

And I think the iOS is still in its early youth... (no global search for example).

Apple: Please give us the option for SAVE AS !

Hi Omar..

you can add everything almost to the side bar...

• bring up finder

• find the item whose alias you want to add to the sidebar

• go to file in top then find the item add to side bar or ....     else use command T

I had the problem too and one day I was exploring all the various commands etc in lion and saw this....

to remove anything in sidebar   command   Delete/backspace

cheers ...

Hi.   I have to clarify

     when you find the item whose alias you want to add to the sidebar select it then use command T

Aliases can be dragged to sidebar too. Only the actual document needs command-T.

Weird change to make. Are they delieberately doing these things or things are just falling apart?