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  • elol Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi sam...

     

    for folders just drag out..

    for adding applications you must use the command T

    for text pdf's      alias will work...but so will the command T

    for jpegs just drag it out..

     

     

    like wise to delete apps from sidebar just command and drag off the window..

     

     

    weird all different commands no set procedure...

  • raftr Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    Normal, I asked Apple to check if it's really matching the rules which it doesn't.


     

    Wait… did I get it right? You caused  some people's app to be knocked off from a featured list, is that what happened?

    Do you realize your experiment of checking Apple's "sticking to their rules" most likely lost that company considerable income?

     

    Unbelievable. I'd wager you didn't have friends in school did you?

  • stefano67 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    this guy is incredible...

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    I don't know the way people are behaving in schools now.

    When I was scholar then student (in the sixties), the rules were supposed to be matched.

    Playing football without matching the rules is just cheating. When it's professional football, it's robbery.

    Winning the « Tour de France » thanks to EPO is robbery.

    Giving features wich may be disabled when they aren’t supposed to be is cheating.

    No reason to leave such cheater among honest players.

    As I'm not a professional developer, I don't have acces to the detailed rules so, I asked Apple if GraphicConvert was matching them. Clearly they didn't.

    When I beta test, more of my reports are written to remind Apple that they defined rules so it would be fine if they take care of these ones.

    Which company may loose income ?

    As far as I know, GraphicConvert is always available in the MAS.

    If LEMKESOFT want to be back in the list, they know what they must do : match the rules which means remove their disable scheme.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 15 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • raftr Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    These "rules" aren't set in stone. They are an attempt to marry traditional desktop computing with the stateless approach to files in iOS—where a file never has to be saved because it always is saved.

     

    It doesn't work. It makes no sense. It is a political decision disguised as an UX one. It's about "let's make it work as it does on mobile because we expect both to merge at some point in the future".

     

    This is why details of Autosave and Versions implementation feel as an afterthought. I suppose it went something like this:

     

    "What if people don't want to autosave older files they open?"

    "Let's remind them about the autosave thingy and warn them by locking those files."

    "OK. When does a file get locked?"

    "I dunno… pick a number… two weeks should be as good as any.  But give them an illusion of control, allow this to be changed to 2-3 predefined values, just make sure those settings are hidden somewhere nobody's going to look for them."

     

    [audible chuckle by Apple employee reading this thread]

     

    Forced Autosave/Versioning is a broken idea from the start. Versioned files get disjointed from their original files when the files are moved (via email, to a network drive, to a portable memory stick and (I understand) even to another computer via iCloud).

     

    Versioning doesn't leave the user any control—commits, file handling, etc. As someone just wrote, it doesn't work anything like version control systems known and polished for decades. Picking a version based on a screenshot on Star Wars background just shows how badly designed that system is.

     

    Apple's UX policy in OSX always seemed to be "make key UI decisions for the user, choose sensible defaults but leave a lever under the hood for power users to tweak them". This new "force everyone do do as we say" paradigm breaks this approach.

     

    Forced Versioning/Autosave makes no sense in a wide range of apps, e.g. anything that deals with editing graphic, video or audio files. JPG or MP3 files, for instance, suffer degradation every time they are saved so an original image should never be saved. Suppose you open a jpg before the two weeks time-lock and change saturation on it just to see what it looks like. Bang—you just caused it to autosave, degrading file quality by re-applying lossy JPG compression. This is absurd and just shows how little thought this whole UX change was given.

    Making duplicates is a very inefficient solution to that—duplicating is also a good example of what I count as an "afterthought to a political decision".

     

    I can't imagine a code editor like Coda, BBEdit or Espresso conforming to those rules either. These apps work with local and remote files, also with versioning systems like SVN or GIT. When editing code, I know the code isn't saved until I deliberately save it. Autosave would get in the way to the point of making the app hard to work with—especially that a lot of work is done on remote files via FTP.

     

    Text Wrangler was just updated to "Lion features" last week on the App Store. Fullscreen? Yes. Autosave? No. Save As? Of course. Plus some other saving options.

     

    The reason you don't hear a widespread uproar about the borked new paradigm is that most people, even professionals using Macs have no idea it's there. A lot learn the hard way, losing their data, breaking files they had been using for a long time (and some of them come here to share their discontent). I had conversations recently with people using Macs for a living that went like:

     

    Me: "You know there's no Save As since Lion?"

    Them: "What are you talking about? Are you joking?"

    Obviously, the apps they're using didn't lose "save as" yet. Wait until they do.

     

    Something's in the air if even people who've made tech celebrity careers out of their loyalty to Apple like fanboy extraordinaire John Gruber begin to quietly hint that something's not right, so far in other people's words:

    http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/03/29/autosave

     

    Back to your righteous (or should I say, servilist) crusade. You are effectively forcing a company to break a piece of good software in order for it to conform to Apple's borked new rules "or else".

     

    Being featured on any of AppStore's featured lists usually means noticeable increase in sales—they just lost that thanks to a self-appointed sheriff. I understand some people bought this piece of software based on a recommendation in this thread, i.e. on GC's wide array of saving options. If this gets broken, those people lose their money's worth when they update the app to the crippled but politically correct version—just like Pixelmator users did. It is a lose-lose.

     

    As I said, something's in the air. Apple extended (as I understand) their deadline for sandboxing and using only the new saving API in AppStore apps. There are many apps not obeying the API rules on other featured lists (actually, the "enhanced for Lion apps" list is oddly short). Adobe just came up with a very good new version of Photoshop, using their own autosave (which is practical, non-invasive and which you can disable, actually what Apple's autosave should've been like all along).

     

    The battle is not lost yet. Apple still can fix Autosave/Versioning by creating an API that is optional to use but above all, usable. Considering that some programs are unlikely to ever use the new paradigm, both paradigms will coexist on OSX for some time, creating an UI mess of historic proportions.

  • Dennis Burnham Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)

    As far as Mission Control and Launchpad are concerned, there is a lot to be learned about the difference between a mobile device and a desktop computer (running Lion).  Let me give you a few examples:

     

    I use the new "Magic Mouse" whose surface is made of glass and whose behavior/sensitivity resembles the iPad and iPhone and iPod touch.  I can't tell you how many times my hand has inadvertently brushed across the top of my mouse as I reach for it, and suddenly my desktop screen has shifted out of range and I need to use the Mission Control icon in the Dock to bring it back if I can't "swipe" it back the same way as I "swiped" it away.

     

    Launchpad probably seemed to a developer like a cool way to emulate on the desktop what works so well on a mobile device.  But they neglected and overlooked two important considerations:

    1. First, the "search" panel that we have on the mobile device is absent on the Mac.  I have hundreds more applications on my iMac than "apps" on my iPad and finding them can be a real pain.  This is made even more a nuisance by the fact that Launchpad detects and displays ALL apps, regardless whether the user actuall uses them or not.  Background processes, uninstallers, all kinds of everything that the OS regards as an APP are shown in Launchpad.
    2. Sometimes, users keep several copies of the same application on hand.  With the experience that new editions of Skype are sometimes defective, I keep the older ones around until I know the newer one works.  As a FileMaker developer, I keep versions 9, 10, 11 and now 12 so that I can open files in the same version my clients use.  The problem is that the icon for these applications is the same, making it impossible to know, when viewing them in Launchpad, which edition thay are, unless you rename the Application at the Finder level.  Until Launchpad, it was enough to just name its parent folder.

     

    Will these "defects" be corrected in future releases of Lion?  Probably, but not unless people report their experience as users.  Which brings me back again to my central point in this long discussion thread, something I have said again and again to those who argue that Apple will never change its thrust toward progress:

     

    Improvements like the ones we are asking for, including the return of SAVE AS, take nothing away from those who want to use the newer "Versions" method of saving copies of files.  Not one person asking for a return to SAVE AS has asked that Apple discontinue its innovative new software technique.

     

    Look at the way your System Preferences of Lion compare to the System Preferences of Jaguar or Cheetah -- if that doesn't convince you that Apple has a tradition of responding to what users want for customizing their computer to the way they work, then I suggest you read or listen to what Steve Jobs wrote and said about the introduction of multiple FONTS on the first Macintish, when every previous computer had only 1 text character.

     

    The only thing at issue here is this:  should there be choice?

  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Dennis Burnham wrote:

     

    As far as Mission Control and Launchpad are concerned, there is a lot to be learned about the difference between a mobile device and a desktop computer (running Lion).  Let me give you a few examples:

     

    I use the new "Magic Mouse" whose surface is made of glass and whose behavior/sensitivity resembles the iPad and iPhone and iPod touch.  I can't tell you how many times my hand has inadvertently brushed across the top of my mouse as I reach for it, and suddenly my desktop screen has shifted out of range and I need to use the Mission Control icon in the Dock to bring it back if I can't "swipe" it back the same way as I "swiped" it away.

     

    Two thoughts:

     

    1) I find Mission Control and Launchpad to be beyond useless. Fortunately, I'm not forced to use them. I can cheerfully ignore them and go on working on my Lion Mac in exactly the same fashion I have in previous systems.

     

    (Personally, I use a background app called Spark, which enables me to map my most frequently used applications to Function Keys. I don't know how anything could be easier than tapping one key to launch an app...and it has the added bonus of enabling me to switch between them as well — though just as often I'll use the Command-Tab sequence, while using Command-Tilde two switch between windows in an app.)

     

    The greater point is, Apple has permitted me to choose the manner of working that is best for me.

     

     

    2) My experience with the Magic Mouse was even more frustrating and damaging. On several occasions, I had the lovely experience of filling out a form on a web page open in Safari, and then with an inadvertent swipe moving to a previous page...which completely wiped out everything I had just filled in. If I reproduced here what I spoke out loud upon those occasions, this post would be nothing but asterisks.

     

    I subsequently discovered that you can disable this behavior in Preferences, but by then I had reached the conclusion that the Magic Mouse conferred no particular benefits to me, and I ditched it in favor of a traditional two-button model with a scroll wheel that cost me all of four dollars. Among other things, I can now once again open a link in a new tab in Safari with a tap of the scroll wheel...as opposed to hoping I hit the proper region on the Magic Mouse just right.

  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Dennis Burnham wrote:

     

    The only thing at issue here is this:  should there be choice?

     

    You know what I'd love to see?

     

    We've just had two extremely literate and thoughtful posts from raftr and Dennis. I would love to see an Apple employee (or perhaps an Apple sycophant — hmm, I wonder where we could find such a person?) refute the points made in these posts.

     

    Please...can someone, anyone, point out the errors in raftr 's and Dennis's thinking? Tell us why they're wrong and Apple is right. Do it line-by-line...quote what they say, and then post your response.

     

    Our chief sycophant here has proven, time and time again, that he is not up to this task. The minute a challenge to his twisted way of thinking (and make no mistake, it is truly twisted) is mounted, he runs the other way and pretends that those words have never been spoken.

     

    As I've had occasion to say once already in the past few days (with events unfolding just as I said they would): watch now as it happens again.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    If I understand well, you want to get my answer.

    Alas, as I wrote in the message which Kurt Lang reported to Apple, I was asked to no longer respond to such questions.

    I apply the rule, no less, no more.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 15 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • Omar.KN Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hej guys,

     

    Let's not get personal please, no-one walking on this earth is perfect, not even Lion OSX ( pun).

     

    But let's stick to fact-finding and let us get the message through to Apple Inc.:

    that Save - As has to be there, at-least as an opt-in.

     

    And thank you raftr & Dennis for the excellent description of the present (not-very-user-friendly) Lion OSX (non-SAVE-AS) situation!

     

    / OmarKN

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,225 points)

    Alas, as I wrote in the message which Kurt Lang reported to Apple

    Ah, poor soul. Assuming I reported you. And now you play the victim again to make it sound like I tattled on you. Let's not overlook the childishness of naming me in the open. I'd say "unbelievable", but it's such a common occurrence with you I've come expect it.

     

    In reality, I didn't care for the fact that you seemed to think it was okay to air a personal email issue with the world in these forums, and I responded. On reflection, I reported on myself. What the hosts decided to remove was up to them as I mentioned nothing in particular for removal.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    I guess that it's why I received :

     

    Yvan,

     

    I have been alerted that you have been sending emails to another user's personal email address.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 15 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,225 points)

    You really can't follow the hosts orders, can you?

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    On 2012/03/20 I warned Matt that I will not remain silent.

    I did what I said.

    Ni dieu ni maître !

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,790 points)

    Look at what we will perhaps get soon :

     

    http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/04/16/awesome-apple-hides-michelangelos-ha nd-of-adam-reaching-for-knowledge-in-touch-patent-filing/

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

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