Q: What happened to Save As?

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

Every attempt to tell me that it would be fine to change this or that ended with the churl to be firmly pushed to the exit (sometimes they were kicked off).

 

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

Ni dieu, ni maître !

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

How interesting to read your credentials.  I'm sure it gives you good reason to be proud of the many accomplishments in your career.

I was not familiar with the term "churl" so I looked it up.  The synonyms, in English, are: bumpkin, hick, clodhopper, cornball, hayseed, hillbiily, yokel, among other derogarory words.  That is consistent with your  view of those who disagree with you here, as you would have been trying to push us, one by one, to the exit with your self-righteous declarations of your wisdom and clairvoyance.

Well, I don't consider myself a churl, and I will not be pushed so easily to the exit.  This is an Apple discussion board, not your private enterprise or pottery shop.  However, if I ever have the misfortune of arriving in your pottery shop, rest assured you will not have to escort me to an exit because I will see myself out, without your help.

While here in the discussion about SAVE AS, you will just have to put up with churls like me.  Of course, the door swings both ways, and you may exit at any time you choose to do so.

I wrote that the betas are available thru torrents. I didn't wrote that I used such feature.

In fact I don't know the way to use torrents.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

I couldn't care less about what is in the torrents or the betas.  I don't plan on wasting my time looking at either a beta or a torrent.  If Apple were to engage with me to do so, I would charge for my time and give them their money's worth in a clearly written opinion.

Instead, I prefer to wait for the actual release of Mountain Lion, whenever that may be, and devote as much energy as I can reaasonably afford prior to its release by persuading others of a like mind to join me in pleading with Apple to correct the mistake they made by removing an important user interface feature.

To reiterate what a chorus of others are saying, we do not expect or ask for the new Versions method to be removed.  We only want the CHOICE.

This discussion group, if it is indeed monitored by Apple support personnel or systems engineers (as they tell us it is) is the recommended way to communicate our feedback to the company.   Since those who are asking for SAVE AS to be restored as an option, your contrary points of view do not help the matter, you do not contribute anything positive to the discussion, and you only weaken the thrust of the requests by making an argumentative thread more difficult for Apple employees to understand.   If it is your goal to reduce the impact of our collective request and frustrate Macintosh users who do not agree with you, then you are doing a skillful job of it.  If that is not your intent, you should consider how you are doing a disservice to all, and your silence would be very much appreciated.

Just because a restaurant creates a no-smoking section does not mean that everyone who does not want to sit in it must also begin smoking.  They have a choice about where to sit, and if they choose to sit in the smoking section, they know what to expect but they are not obligated to light up a cigarette or cigar.

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

I wrote that the betas are available thru torrents. I didn't wrote that I used such feature.

In fact I don't know the way to use torrents.

 

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Your statement was:

"Trust me or don't, I repeat : in the existing versions of Mountain Lion, Script Editor has no Save As menu item. Some betatesters are unfair enough to put beta versions in torrents so it's easy to see that"

You make an extremely affirmative statement. You write, "It's easy to see that."

Those who are a part of the Apple Developer Program or who otherwise engage in beta testing for Apple agree to a strict non-disclosure clause.

One way or the other, you have come by your knowledge by engaging in shady activity that is clearly against Apple's "rules." If you truly believed in those rules, you would have nothing to do with websites or individuals who violate them in this way.

So once again, you invoke the "rules" when it suits you, and ignore them when it's to your advantage.

Somehow, this doesn't surprise me.

Just for the record, Yvan is a Mountain Lion beta tester. While he of course is not allowed to reveal anything about the OS itself, I don't think just saying you are part of the group is any kind of violation of the NDA.

As for torrents, he was only mentioning they exist. When I was a beta tester for Snow Leopard, it never failed that a new build would be on these sites in less that 12 hours. Sometimes as fast as a couple hours.

Dennis Burnham wrote:

 

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

Every attempt to tell me that it would be fine to change this or that ended with the churl to be firmly pushed to the exit (sometimes they were kicked off).

 

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

Ni dieu, ni maître !

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

 

How interesting to read your credentials.  I'm sure it gives you good reason to be proud of the many accomplishments in your career.

 

I was not familiar with the term "churl" so I looked it up.  The synonyms, in English, are: bumpkin, hick, clodhopper, cornball, hayseed, hillbiily, yokel, among other derogarory words.  That is consistent with your  view of those who disagree with you here, as you would have been trying to push us, one by one, to the exit with your self-righteous declarations of your wisdom and clairvoyance.

Nothing common between churl asking me to make changes to my own creations and peoples writing here. You aren't speaking about my works so your comments aren't my problem.

What you don't understand is that you aren't the owner of this thread.

So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.

As far as I know, I'm polite so nothing is wrong in my messages.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

Ni dieu, ni maître !

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

 

So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.

Great! Then I'll look forward to your reply to this post of mine.

You know, the one you said earlier that (alas!) you couldn't respond to. What's stopping you now?

Well, I am in no position to judge who should or should not be beta testers, and maybe one of the qualifications to have that honor is to be the kind of personality type that is intolerant of others' points of view.  That is to say, maybe the process of beta-testing software requires a certain kind of dedicated focus that is undistracted by the kind of variables that exist in the world of "opinion."

On the other hand, someone in his position might also be able to say to the people in this thread, instead of arguing wiht us: "I am in no position to commit to anything on behalf of the company, but I have observed  that there are a great many users who feel disadvantaged by the removal of the Save As command, and I will do you all the courtesy of respecting your time and thoughtful input by passing that along to the company as part of my beta-testing work.  Even though I don't agree with you, I consider it my responsibility to let the company know what others are saying about the current Lion product in case they may decide to use your collective feedback and include the requested change in Mountain Lion."

Would that be asking too much?

I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.

It's exactly what I do.

You are free to express your opinion, I'm free to express mine, no less no more.

If there is a problem, it's not between you and me. It may be between the moderators and me.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.

 

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.

It's exactly what I do.

No need to comment any further...this speaks for itself.

But I'll play along. What is it, exactly, Yvan, that I "refuse to understand"? Please be specific.

I refused to test operating system features. There are a lot of guys more competent than me to do that. I check only the French localization which means good wording, spelling and grammar.

It's sufficient for a gratuitous action. My reward would be to be able to work with apps without beeing hurted by bad wording, spelling or grammar.

Same thing when I help users to solve their problems. No money involved. I'm just glad when I receive the mails sent by Apple saying "Congratulations, your post has helped  xyz" or "Congratulations, your post has solved wxc's question."

Making money was always far from being the most important thing in my life. I know, I'm a coelacanthus.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

DChord568 wrote:

 

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

So, I feel free to write what I think even if I was asked to don't do.

 

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

I was ask to no longer try to explain what you refuse to understand.

It's exactly what I do.

 

No need to comment any further...this speaks for itself.

 

But I'll play along. What is it, exactly, Yvan, that I "refuse to understand"? Please be specific.

The removal of Save AS, the introduction of AutoSave, the introduction of Versions as features that we can't disable.

I will not discuss of that. You know my advice, I know yours.

These features are implemented this way. Period.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

Would that be asking too much?

Not at all. Believe me, I agree with you. There just seemed to be a little confusion that Yvan was himself involved in torrents. I only wanted to clarify that he isn't.

These features are implemented this way. Period.

No, NOT period. Threads like these and other beta testers exist for users to express their opinions that mistakes have been made, changes need to be made, options be made available.

Comments such as yours suggest you are "King" and somehow have complete control over Apple's engineers. You of course do not. Stop making such absolute statements you cannot possibly, knowingly hold to be true.

 

Kurt Lang wrote:

 

Comments such as yours suggest you are "King" and somehow have complete control over Apple's engineers.

 

If you understand my sentences this way it's that it was certainly no matching my thaughts.

Period was meaning that I will not add more about these points.

Don't hope that I would obey to your requests.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 16 avril 2012

Ni dieu ni maître !

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k