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What happened to Save As?

62395 Views 1,105 Replies Latest reply: Jul 18, 2013 12:57 PM by DChord568 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • Kurt Lang Level 7 Level 7 (31,510 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 11:30 AM (in response to elol)

    that means as I said earlier the code is there.

    Correct. There's really nothing different about it other than if the latest version of iWorks detects it is running under Lion, you are forced to use Duplicate/Versions/Autosave. And Save As, or the ability to turn Duplicate/Versions/Autosave off is not allowed as a user choice.

     

    It's a completely, arbitrarily forced workflow.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 11:42 AM (in response to markinbali)

    markinbali wrote:

     

    Don't leave yet. One last question.

    It seems from what you said above that  there is no technical reason why the preference option we are requesting could not easily be provided in any app?

    Hello

     

    The codes are in the applications.

    As I wrote, I may explain what is doing what but I can't explain why Apple made this or that choice.

    Here, we have the old code because the apps must be able to run under old systems.

    Apple choose to make the new features permanent and only Apple may give the exact explanation of their choice.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 30 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 11:43 AM (in response to elol)

    elol wrote:

     

    that means as I said earlier the code is there.

     

    could someone try the terminal instructions i mentioned earlier to turn off autosave for pages and numbers...

     

    I already told you that I tested !

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 30 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • elol Calculating status...
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    Apr 30, 2012 12:22 PM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    Yvan..

     

    thank you..  missed that you already tested that  ...  Sorry

     

    elo

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2012 12:54 PM (in response to elol)

    In fact I tested immediately after reading that Pixelmator delivered the feature.

     

    From my point of view, the way the feature is delivered in GraphicConvert is more honest (or fair) than the Pixelmator one.

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 30 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • raftr Calculating status...
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    Apr 30, 2012 1:11 PM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    From my point of view, the way the feature is delivered in GraphicConvert is more honest (or fair) than the Pixelmator one.

     

    How can it be fair? It's against the rules!

     

    I much prefer Pixelmator way: no Autosaving, no Duplicating, no Locking, just good plain Save As.

  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,760 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2012 1:19 PM (in response to raftr)

    GraphicConvert breaks the rules but do that the visible way.

    PixelMator hide the trick like a thief. In French we describe that by : « faire un enfant dans le dos »

     

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 30 avril 2012

    iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3

    My Box account  is : http://www.box.com/s/00qnssoyeq2xvc22ra4k

  • elol Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 1:28 PM (in response to raftr)

    Hi:  raftr

     

    what did you do?

     

    I cannot get it to work on either of my machines.   ie the test version...

     

    could you re post the commands.....

     

    I have used terminnal many times and success.   bu this time no go..

     

    elo

  • raftr Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 1:48 PM (in response to KOENIG Yvan)

    KOENIG Yvan wrote:

     

    Apple choose to make the new features permanent and only Apple may give the exact explanation of their choice.

     

    The explanation is simple: big strategic decision to try and get iOS and OSX closer because it is a natural direction for them to become one someday in the future.

     

    iOS always saves app state on closing. Many apps, like text editors, don't even have a "save" option, they just save automatically and resume the last state on launch.

     

    Autosave and Resume follow Apple mobile paradigms. But… this is where problems begin. Because the decision came from a political/strategic standpoint, not user experience one, everything that follows is an afterthought.

     

    You close an app. Old app asks you what to do with open files. New app just closes and Autosaves.

    Autosave means destruction of the original version, so there is a need for Versions to store the old one. Where to store Versions? Who knows, let's put them in root folder. It's not like anyone is going to ever use it.

    What if someone opens an old file and doesn't want changes saved? Let's lock the file for them. When? It's not important, maybe two weeks? OK, let's make it two weeks, as good as any.

    What? They want to make edits and not overwrite the original? Who does that? Let's think of something… will duplicating work? Let's make those files duplicate, problem sorted.

     

    And so on, and so on… afterthoughts and yards of duct-tape to conform to the main "make it like iOS" decision. Add the state of uncertainty and urgency Apple was under when this was happening… and here we are.

     

    Thing is, the new paradigm doesn't work. Not even in iOS in many cases. Well it does work for some apps like text editors, as I said.

     

    But… take any photo editing app on iPhone—Instagram, CameraBag or whatever. Open a picture, edit, save. The edited image is Saved As a NEW image. Original is always preserved. What just happened, was mobile version of Save As (only the name was generated automatically). Destructive editing without overwriting of the original file and without duplicating. No versioning, just saving as a new output file, as common sense says it would be.

  • raftr Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 1:59 PM (in response to elol)

    elol wrote:

     

    Hi:  raftr

     

    what did you do?

    That's not me you should be asking, I don't have Pixelmator. Check a few pages back I suppose.

  • elol Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 30, 2012 2:12 PM (in response to raftr)

    Sorry Raftr

     

    assumed your statement

     

     

    "I much prefer Pixelmator way: no Autosaving, no Duplicating, no Locking, just good plain Save As."

     

    meant you had tried it and seen it....

     

    cheers elo


  • bpbpbp Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2012 8:20 PM (in response to elol)

    Not wishing to put a 'spanner in the works' here in this discussion about 'Save As' but this new disliked autosave paradigm is causing other problems for me. Is anyone finding it annoying that the last auto saved version is popping up when the application is opened?

     

    I'm used to telling the application what I want opened. I had a PC friend over the other day and was showing him my Mac; went to open Pages and up popped a file that I had not wanted to show him (personal business). It was the last file I had used on the Pages programme.

     

    Is this auto 'pop up' avoidable as it can be embarrassing?

  • Barry Level 7 Level 7 (29,095 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2012 11:50 PM (in response to bpbpbp)

    Hi b,

     

    Probably better to post this  type of message (a request for tech help) in a thread separate from this one (arguing the merits and demerits of autosave/versions, etc.)

     

    The new feature that' bugging you is "resume", a feature that assumes anything you left open is something you're not finished with. Because you're not finished with it, Resume opens it the next time you launch its application so that you can continue working on that file.

     

    Avoiding that popup is something your mother (and your kindergarten teacher) told you (many times, if you're like me): "If you're done with your toys, put them away."

     

    Translated to the current situation: "If you're finished with that file (for now), close the file before you quit Numbers." Do that, and Resume knows you're done with the file (for now), and won't open it when you next launch Numbers.

     

    Same for Pages, but this thread is in the Numbers community, so I've referred to Numbers here.

     

    Regards,

    Barry

  • bpbpbp Level 2 Level 2 (205 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 1, 2012 6:40 AM (in response to Barry)

    Hi Barry,

     

    Thanks - you answered my query. No point redirecting my post to another thread nor contacting tech support.

     

    I could have sworn I was closing each file properly but I will pay particular attention to this from now on and see what happens.

     

    Sorry I ended up on the wrong thread - stuff happens.

     

    Regards,

  • dfordrummer Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 1, 2012 8:20 AM (in response to GunnerBuck)

    Duplicate is a poor substitute.

     

    My work on presentations takes a lot longer to set up when you have to 'Duplicate', then 'Save as...' just to create a new Client version to start work on.

     

    It's Nuts.

     

    By all means keep the 'Duplicate' option, but make the 'Save as..' a system wide Preference to add it in. Just like you did with natural scrolling for a mouse.

     

    Russell

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