GunnerBuck
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: What happened to Save As?

I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?

Pages, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 27, 2011 6:12 AM

by Dennis_Burnham,Solvedanswer
Dennis_Burnham Dennis_Burnham
Level 1 (10 points)
A:

Yes, you moron, of course I am certain or I would not have wasted my time "ranting" as you call it.  With experience on this computer platform since 1984 and a shareholder for many years, I have earned the right to express an opinion that is, if I do say so myself, educated.

 

I did not say that there is anything wrong with Lion, notwithstanding some early adoption problems that will certainly become corrected in subsequent releases. Only a fool would discard that much progress because of a few minor glitches having to be learned or resolved.

 

The removal of SAVE AS is different.  It's a classic "ain't broke don't fix it" example.  On a system known for its intuitiveness, Save a Version is as counterintuitive as can be.  You execute the command and you're still on the same document, so what is the "version" and how does it differ from "Save" ?  The Duplicate command has worked splendidly in Photoshop, where there is a reason to have two identical docs open together.  In a word processing environment, that makes sense when you use BBEdit to compare text in multiple docs.  In Pages, as a substitute for Save As, it only results in your having to close the one you just duplicated and eventually use an additional step to name the new one something other than "copy".

 

This change is totally indefensible.  If someone can explain the rationale, go ahead.  Otherwise, you can call me an idiot or a ranter, but it's obvious by the existence of these discussions of the problem that I've got the world on my side on this one.

Posted on Sep 1, 2011 5:41 AM

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GunnerBuck

Q: What happened to Save As?

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  • by Stupidd Looser,

    Stupidd Looser Stupidd Looser May 31, 2012 1:09 AM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:09 AM in response to GunnerBuck

    Good news! Found a way to disable Auto Save, Versions and Resume!

     

    Open Terminal and run one or more of the following commands:

     

    Pages:

     

    defaults write com.apple.iWork.Pages ApplePersistence -bool no

     

    Numbers:

     

    defaults write com.apple.iWork.Numbers ApplePersistence -bool no

     

    Keynote:

     

    defaults write com.apple.iWork.Keynote ApplePersistence -bool no

     

    Preview:

     

    defaults write com.apple.Preview ApplePersistence -bool no

     

     

     

    More information here.

  • by stefano67,

    stefano67 stefano67 May 31, 2012 11:43 AM in response to Stupidd Looser
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 11:43 AM in response to Stupidd Looser

    hi, I tried on ML and after the change the option key does not allow save as anymore

  • by Stupidd Looser,

    Stupidd Looser Stupidd Looser May 31, 2012 11:56 AM in response to stefano67
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 11:56 AM in response to stefano67

    Hmm... only tried it on Lion myself and Save As was present there (without holding the option key). What does the menu entry say on ML when you don't hold the option key? Duplicate?

  • by stefano67,

    stefano67 stefano67 May 31, 2012 1:07 PM in response to Stupidd Looser
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:07 PM in response to Stupidd Looser

    Her eis how it looks like:

     

     

    Without Option key pressed

    NoOption.jpg

     

     

     

     

    With Option key pressed

     

    Option.jpg

  • by Stupidd Looser,

    Stupidd Looser Stupidd Looser May 31, 2012 1:36 PM in response to stefano67
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:36 PM in response to stefano67

    Bummer. Looks like this might only work properly in Lion then... Anyway in case you or anyone else are wondering how to get back the original behaviour in Numbers you can run this command:

     

    defaults delete com.apple.iWork.Numbers ApplePersistence

     

    Swap 'Numbers' in the above command with the name of other apps you want to restore.

  • by Stupidd Looser,

    Stupidd Looser Stupidd Looser May 31, 2012 2:07 PM in response to stefano67
    Level 1 (10 points)
    May 31, 2012 2:07 PM in response to stefano67

    Anyway, at least there's a way to disable Versions (that presumably also works in ML), as described here, and together with the option to revert changes and the return of save as, ML just might turn out to be a usable OS, unlike Lion.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jun 7, 2012 7:51 AM in response to Stupidd Looser
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 7, 2012 7:51 AM in response to Stupidd Looser

    That link was at least a way to "disable" Autosave/Versions - when it was the only known way. Not very good though since all you were doing was preventing the OS from accessing the Versions folder. At least Apple put in an error trap for it instead of an app simply crashing when it couldn't save a document state.

     

    The preference modification is much better. It simply tells the app not to use Autosave/Versions. So when you are using Pages, Final Cut ProX or other apps that would normally stall when trying to use them with large documents, they then shouldn't do that. It is up to you then to press Command+S periodically to save your work as you go (like we have been for over the past two decades).

     

    The only nuisance left is that you still have to use Duplicate to do a "Save As", but at least you've disabled the worst system resources hogging option.

  • by DChord568,

    DChord568 DChord568 Jun 11, 2012 12:32 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (14 points)
    iWork
    Jun 11, 2012 12:32 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Looks like it's official..."Save As" will return in Mountain Lion.

     

    Go to http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html and scroll down three sections to Auto Save.

     

    I will want to see for myself that this works in exactly the same way as it always has, and will also want to see what difference the Revert to Last Saved and Prompt to Save options will make.

     

    I agree with Kurt that it would be much better if you could just turn the whole **** business off and have everything work as it always has. But that's probably too much to hope for.

     

    It does at least appear that Apple has listened to our pleas to a certain extent.

     

    I wonder if we'll see a dish of French Crow served up anytime soon here? My bet is no.

  • by stefano67,

    stefano67 stefano67 Jun 11, 2012 1:01 PM in response to DChord568
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jun 11, 2012 1:01 PM in response to DChord568

    It looks a good news, although I find extremely embarassing to include Save As in the 200+ New Features

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jun 11, 2012 1:35 PM in response to DChord568
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 11, 2012 1:35 PM in response to DChord568

    Looks like it's official..."Save As" will return in Mountain Lion.

    As punishment for our griping though, we have to press four keys instead of the original three to do it since Apple had already repurposed Command+Shift+S for Duplicate in Lion.

     

    That will likely be the case for all Apple developed apps. I would bet Adobe will still use Command+Shift+S for Save As.

  • by linda2009,

    linda2009 linda2009 Jun 11, 2012 1:49 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (66 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 11, 2012 1:49 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    I noticed that, too, Kurt.  Save As used the 3-keys before Duplicate and for much longer!  It should have been the other way around. 

     

    Doesn't look like they mentioned Versions...at least I couldn't find it mentioned.  When you choose not to save the document you are closing, does it delete the version(s) it made while you were working on it?

     

    I just cringe at the thought of all the wasted time and space that Versions creates.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Jun 12, 2012 6:46 PM in response to linda2009
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 12, 2012 6:46 PM in response to linda2009

    When you choose not to save the document you are closing, does it delete the version(s) it made while you were working on it?

    No clue. I wasn't a beta tester for Mountain Lion, or ever installed the developer's preview. All I know is second hand information at places like MacRumors, where others who do have ML installed report on changes as the OS progresses. But we'll all know in about a month.

    I just cringe at the thought of all the wasted time and space that Versions creates.

    Just one of the reasons I'm fully committed to avoid ever using a single app which forces you to use those functions.

  • by stefano67,

    stefano67 stefano67 Jun 13, 2012 1:42 AM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jun 13, 2012 1:42 AM in response to GunnerBuck

    I made some tests on the DP3

     

    As I wrote previously the option key brings back the Save As menu item.

     

    What Stupidd Looser wrote, Autosave and Versions can be disabled in Lion, but when I tried on ML Save As was lost even with the Option key pressed.

     

    Then, to avoid versions, I removed the /.DocumentRevisions-V100 and redirected to /dev/null

     

    (as superuser) type:

    ln -s  /dev/null  /.DocumentRevisions-V100

     

    In this way everytime a previous version is autosaved it goes to nothing (thus it is lost) and the main HD is seen as a device not supporting versions.

     

    I am still checking if it works or not.

    Just to let you know...

  • by n3nto,

    n3nto n3nto Jun 13, 2012 7:04 AM in response to stefano67
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Jun 13, 2012 7:04 AM in response to stefano67

    Thank god. I posted so many comments about "save as" here and on other blogs as well as criticizing versions. I thought we had lost the battle. I downgraded to Snow leopard but was worried about having to (eventually) upgrade to the latest OS so as to get updates for new software. The people that invented versions and that took away save as should be prosecuted for damages to the well being of humanity!

     

    There does seem to be a kind soul at Apple!!!

     

    Thank you to the people that brought it back.. but please not a 4 key shortcut.

  • by raftr,

    raftr raftr Jul 30, 2012 6:13 AM in response to GunnerBuck
    Level 1 (0 points)
    iTunes
    Jul 30, 2012 6:13 AM in response to GunnerBuck

    Here is how to restore "Save As…" in Mountain Lion, with a proper shortcut:

    http://www.tuaw.com/2012/07/29/get-save-as-back-on-mountain-lions-file-menu-easi ly-and-without/

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