GunnerBuck
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: What happened to Save As?

I use pages for my work invoices and have a pretty comprehensive filing for previous invoices. The omission of 'save as' in the lion version of pages is extremely frustrating. Is there a work around? Will they fix this in the future or should I switch to a microsoft excel worksheet?

Pages, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 27, 2011 6:12 AM

by Dennis_Burnham,Solvedanswer
Dennis_Burnham Dennis_Burnham
Level 1 (10 points)
A:

Yes, you moron, of course I am certain or I would not have wasted my time "ranting" as you call it.  With experience on this computer platform since 1984 and a shareholder for many years, I have earned the right to express an opinion that is, if I do say so myself, educated.

 

I did not say that there is anything wrong with Lion, notwithstanding some early adoption problems that will certainly become corrected in subsequent releases. Only a fool would discard that much progress because of a few minor glitches having to be learned or resolved.

 

The removal of SAVE AS is different.  It's a classic "ain't broke don't fix it" example.  On a system known for its intuitiveness, Save a Version is as counterintuitive as can be.  You execute the command and you're still on the same document, so what is the "version" and how does it differ from "Save" ?  The Duplicate command has worked splendidly in Photoshop, where there is a reason to have two identical docs open together.  In a word processing environment, that makes sense when you use BBEdit to compare text in multiple docs.  In Pages, as a substitute for Save As, it only results in your having to close the one you just duplicated and eventually use an additional step to name the new one something other than "copy".

 

This change is totally indefensible.  If someone can explain the rationale, go ahead.  Otherwise, you can call me an idiot or a ranter, but it's obvious by the existence of these discussions of the problem that I've got the world on my side on this one.

Posted on Sep 1, 2011 5:41 AM

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GunnerBuck

Q: What happened to Save As?

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  • by Apple 1976-2011,

    Apple 1976-2011 Apple 1976-2011 Aug 2, 2012 7:59 AM in response to Steve Maximus
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 2, 2012 7:59 AM in response to Steve Maximus

    Steve Maximus wrote:

     

    Apple 1976-2011,

     

    Please don't underestimate the wisdom of your words. I study human behavior in business and what is happening at Apple will most probably be a business university text book case study in 20 years time. They have lost the values of Steve Jobs and they should be expectd to decline again to bankruptcy just as they did the last time he left. It will take 10 years if it happens, unless someone else can take control. Maybe in 9 years from now when they are worth almost nothing then a champion will come and save them again. As for now, every new decision they make is the opposite choice that Steve Jobs would have made. It takes time for these bad decisions to add up, plus there is no new integrated package for people to choose. When there is Apple we die the slow death that they deserve.

     

    Steve.

     

    I really hope Jony Ive jumps ship. Then they'll have nobody left at all. I shall savour every moment of the sinking ship of fools if that were to happen ;-)

     

    Feel free to use the censored comment in your ebook, btw... ;-)

  • by RonL,

    RonL RonL Aug 2, 2012 8:04 AM in response to ericsiegel01
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Aug 2, 2012 8:04 AM in response to ericsiegel01

    ericsiegel01,

     

    What you've described is not happening for me. That is... creating two TextEdit files... one named DocumentA and the other DocumentB... doesn't end up with my losing the text in DocumentA.

     

    When both files are opened DocumentA still shows "Original" and DocumentB shows "Modified."

     

    Probably because I've disabled Autosave with the global Terminal command I posted about in this thread and that I used prior  to reassigning the Duplicate keyboard shortcut that I also posted about in this thread.

     

    As Kurt noted though (nice catch Kurt)... I too have lost the Duplicate listing in the File menu for Preview... and there's no Save As there either.

     

    I don't really need that for Preview though.

     

    For those that are noticing a slight delay in the login time... it appears that startup apps are being fully loaded before the Desktop appears.

     

    Before gloabally disabling Autosave the Desktop would appear and I would see startup apps loading. Afterwards everything is loaded when the Desktop appears. It's only a couple seconds longer for me.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Aug 2, 2012 8:14 AM in response to Steve Maximus
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 2, 2012 8:14 AM in response to Steve Maximus

    In Preview can you remap the Save-As command to Ctr-Shift-S through the keyboard shortcuts to get it back, or is it lost forever?

    Nope. I tried remapping it to various keystrokes. It wouldn't add any of them.

  • by Steve Maximus,

    Steve Maximus Steve Maximus Aug 3, 2012 11:29 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 3, 2012 11:29 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Thanks Kurt. Weird. Apple just feels like Microsoft more and more every day...

  • by RonL,

    RonL RonL Aug 3, 2012 11:58 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Aug 3, 2012 11:58 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt,

     

    I just found out from Marcel Bresink (TinkerTool System) that disabling Autosave is definitely not advisable and can have unexpected consequences.

     

    This appears to be one of them... the loss of Save As and/or Duplicate in the Preview File menu.

     

    I reactivated Autosave and it returned.

     

    I just posted an apology for my recent post regarding the fact that disabling Autosave noticeably speeded my system up... which it did... not realizing it could have serious consequences.

     

    Here's part of Marcel's reply to my inquiry... "disabling this feature can cause subtle problems both with program logic and program behavior. In the worst case, this can lead to serious data loss. For this reason, it is out of the question to disable the autosave-in-place function."

     

    So… since he says not to do it… I wouldn't do it… since he is a very knowledgeable developer when it comes to tweaking OS X.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Aug 4, 2012 8:01 AM in response to RonL
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 4, 2012 8:01 AM in response to RonL

    Sorry to hear that. User choice should always be first.

     

    I just can't fathom why Apple is forcing this down the throats of those users who rely on Apple's programs (Pages, FCPX, etc.). No one else is following Apple's lead and either have an option to turn Autosave/Versions off, or are ignoring it completely.

     

    I'm just glad I don't use any of these apps. Only TextEdit, which I can completely replace with the Snow Leopard version, and occasionally Preview when I want to simply view images without launching Photoshop. Other threads have noted replacement apps for Preview. I'll have to look into them and pick one. Then remove Preview from the hard drive, too. Then I won't have to put up with any of this nonsense.

  • by alienimplant,

    alienimplant alienimplant Aug 5, 2012 12:20 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Audio
    Aug 5, 2012 12:20 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    ***?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me this is a nightmare, and I'm going to wake up any second in a fit of tremendous relief at how strange everything was in that **** of a dream.

  • by alienimplant,

    alienimplant alienimplant Aug 5, 2012 12:20 PM in response to alienimplant
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Audio
    Aug 5, 2012 12:20 PM in response to alienimplant

    Apparently h-e-l-l is a curse word. Nice!

  • by Donnie Ashworth,

    Donnie Ashworth Donnie Ashworth Aug 5, 2012 12:38 PM in response to alienimplant
    Level 3 (884 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 5, 2012 12:38 PM in response to alienimplant

    This is one colossal mess. I doubt I will be upgrading to Mountain Lion, this being one reason (another being it won't run on my other computer, a 2008 Macbook Air. ) 

     

    I'm already confused enough with this save / duplicate/ versions stuff in Lion without adding Mountain Lion's faux fix to the mixture. Just reading the last several posts has my head spinning.

  • by elol,

    elol elol Aug 5, 2012 12:42 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 5, 2012 12:42 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Hi:

     

    Hail to the only two apps that I know of that allow you to turn SAVE AS/Versions  on or off

     

    GraphicConverter   - photoshop(?), Preview etc etc replacement?????  just does everything

    NeoOffice - Office replacement  pages, numbers, database etc etc..   (but just not pretty or graphics etc...

     

     

    they both work and do the job without having to fight...

     

    please help me add to the list

     

    cheers elo

  • by elol,

    elol elol Aug 10, 2012 7:18 AM in response to elol
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 10, 2012 7:18 AM in response to elol

    Hi:    Add one more replacement app to my list....

     

     

     

    BEAN   has now replaced Text Edit on my list of apps.  It is free does most of what I need and forget about word, etc.......just wish it could handle floating graphics.....  (Not available on the app store) 

    www.bean-osx.com

     

     

     

    Hail to the only two apps that I know of that allow you to turn SAVE AS/Versions  on or off

     

    GraphicConverter   - photoshop(?), Preview etc etc replacement?????  just does everything

    NeoOffice - Office replacement  pages, numbers, database etc etc..   (but just not pretty or graphics etc...

     

     

    they both work and do the job without having to fight...

     

    please help me add to the list

     

    cheers elo

  • by RonL,

    RonL RonL Aug 10, 2012 11:40 AM in response to elol
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Aug 10, 2012 11:40 AM in response to elol

    Hail to the only two apps that I know of that allow you to turn SAVE AS/Versions  on or off

     

    The entire Adobe Creative Suite still utilizes Save As, as it always has, with no automatic saving. Hail Adobe!!

     

    Adobe appears to have the common sense to understand that anyone using their suite does not want this $&#%... and that it can lead to saving errors, etc. rather than eliminating the possibility of losing work.

  • by elol,

    elol elol Aug 10, 2012 12:58 PM in response to RonL
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 10, 2012 12:58 PM in response to RonL

    Adobe and microsoft have not show what their intentions.

    Hope they both stay as they are.

     

    send emails to tell them not to change.....

     

    cheers elo

  • by RonL,

    RonL RonL Aug 10, 2012 2:50 PM in response to elol
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Aug 10, 2012 2:50 PM in response to elol

    There's no way Adobe will change to autosave as a default... or change Save As.

     

    Professionals don't make stupid mistakes where they forget to save files... and if you're in an area where the power is often interupted (Nigeria?)... then you'll have a backup power supply. And "Save As" is something that I, and others, use so often in Photoshop, InDesign, Acrobat... etc. that it would royally f__k up our workflow. We would scream!

     

    Whereas at the moment Save As and Autosave with Mountain Lion mainly affects TextEdit, Preview, and maybe QT. Imagine... with users as p____d off at this as they are now with these minor apps... what Adobe users would do if Adobe tried this. Not going to happen.

     

    Microsoft on-the-other-hand may well change since they too, like Apple, are increasingly concerned with newbies forgetting to save their work... and wanting to iOSify the system so all will be the same.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Aug 11, 2012 6:52 AM in response to RonL
    Level 8 (38,049 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 11, 2012 6:52 AM in response to RonL

    And "Save As" is something that I, and others, use so often in Photoshop, InDesign, Acrobat...

    I've never counted how many times I use Save As a day in Photoshop, but it's significant. Being forced to use Duplicate in Apple's method, and having to remember to go back and revert every stinkin' file I closed that had changes I didn't want to keep would drastically slow me down.

     

    Adobe, Quark and many, many other vendors understand that these are YOUR documents. The OS has no right deciding for you what should be saved.

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