Q: What happened to Save As?

I figure this thread is about to be deleted.

As long as people stay on point, it will likely stay. And that's no speculation, ranting, posts (especially a lot of them) that aren't even the slightest bit technical in nature, rude, etc. As long as we continue to help each other with suggestions/workarounds for Save As vs. Autosave/Versions, then it's a valid enough discussion to continue.

>As long as people stay on point

Well I can say that I've tried to keep up with all constructive answers concerning "What happened to Save As" and I saved them to Pages, counting now 106 pages!! and I didn't include everything.

So that said, wouldn't it be nice to have some kind of _summary_ esp. for those joining lately:

With Mountain Lion is it a good idea* to implement the shortcut- workaround, TO SET A NEW SAVE AS, (which I can't find the url now, anyone?), which was mentioned here a while ago.

*For those at least who don't have to worry much about Versions and Auto-Save, and who don't work heavily with Photoshop etc.

bw,

Omar K N

Well I can say that I've tried to keep up with all constructive answers concerning "What happened to Save As" and I saved them to Pages, counting now 106 pages!! and I didn't include everything.

No, not everything in this thread is about technical issues, but enough to warrant living.

ok the tip is here (to repeat):

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/07/29/get-save-as-back-on-mountain-lions-file-menu-easi ly-and-without/

Get Save As back on Mountain Lion's File menu easily and without hacks, by TJ Luoma

Q:
Is this a valuable method** to get back some sort of the "Save As" feature, has anyone here tested it?

(I don't want to compromise on or lose CPU-performance).

**For those at least who don't have to worry much about Versions and Auto-Save, and who don't work heavily with Photoshop etc.

bw,

Omar K N

Is this a valuable method** to get back some sort of the "Save As" feature, has anyone here tested it?

Yes I've tested it and unfortunately though it puts the Save As back in the File menu... it breaks some other things AND unless Autosave is deactivated (which breaks other things as well if it is deactivated) the original file that was opened gets automatically saved in the background and ends up being saved identically to the newly saved Save As file without even giving you the option to revert.

There are blogs on this soon after the workaround was posted by TJ. (credits to TJ for trying though)

Read this article...

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/08/05/mountain-lion-bugs-chopped-battery-life-and-nonse nsical-save-a/

...starting approx. half way down the page where it begins...

"Far more concerning is the way "Save As" works in Mountain Lion."

Attention All:

100% on topic, it is CRITICAL that people know that Mountain Lion Save-As is NOT the Save-As of the last 30 years of Apple, Microsoft, Adobe etc. It is critical that people here know that Apple have created a new very different function and called it by a name that people automatically associate with a process they have been using for up to 30 years.

1. Existing Save-As on Microsoft, Adobe / Previous Save-As on Apple OSX Snow Leopard = Closes your original document at the MOST RECENT edit when you manually saved it + opens a new document with your current edits in the same folder + prompts you for a name for this new document.

2. NEW Save-As on Apple OSX Mountain Lion = Closes your original document at your CURRENT EDIT + opens a new document with your current edits in the same folder + prompts you for a name for this new document.

We now have the two largest operating systems available for laptops / desktops using the same name for two very different processes. In the Apple OSX operating system we now have the same name for two very different processes depending on what system you use. This is a change to a fundamental process with no public warning of this change.

People need to be warned about this because it would be logical to assume Save-As was the original process and not a DIFFERENT process entirely. Therefore I believe that this thread has validity as a WARNING to people of these changes.

Steve.

Thank you, Steve.  It is important information and an important warning.

I wish Apple would just provide a way to turn off AutoSaving, Versions, etc.  Why not let those that want it, keep it and provide an option to turn it off for people not wanting it.  Wouldn't that be the easiest way to deal with the serious issue(s) AutoSaving, Versions, etc cause?

That's my opinion and many others in this forum.

I'm still looking for a way to get the iWork update 9.0.5.  Anyone have any ideas or options?

linda2009,

I believe the cause of this strange behavior was hinted at in the SL Terminal command to turn off Versions. The variable was called ApplePersistence. I believe that Apple thinks they must persist with versions and the world will come around to their way of thinking. Unlike the iPod and iPad, versions is not a smaller easier way to compute. That is why these forums have tens of thousands of views. People don't want it, and their persistence is now Microsoft like behavior. Unfortunately the man who had the courage to say "We made a mistake" Steve Jobs had gone, so expect the dissappointing corporate behavior we are used to in other large companies to slowly increase from Apple.

Steve.

>2. NEW Save-As on Apple OSX Mountain Lion = Closes your original document at your CURRENT EDIT + opens a new document with your current edits in the same folder + prompts you for a name for this new document.

Thank you Steve for your effort,

however, my wife says I 'm daft, but I don't understand what you mean by:

"Closes your original document at your CURRENT EDIT + ..."

Does this mean when I open one of my documents, then I edit it, and when I choose ML Save As the original doc. will be closed (by Apple, the new OS, - a pun here-) without ? this new edit, which will be there on a "a new document with your current edits."?

/

Omar

(Why make something simple, when it can be done in a screwed way!)

Omar,

Please read Kurt Lang's earlier comments. He explains it clearly. I am working from him comments. What happens is that the "new" Save-As" updates the file it saves and closes to the version when you pressed Save-As. That is you now have two identical documents just as you had with Duplicate. The original Save-As (still used by a few billion Windows users) closed your original file without updating the original document. Therefore it was the file when you last saved it.

If you opened a file and worked on it for 30 minutes, then pressed Save-As the original Save-As left your original file unchanged. It created a new file with the 30 minutes of work. Now the new Save-As will update your original file to include the 30 minutes of work, then closes it, plus it creates a new file identical to the one it just saved. That is the same process as Duplicate, except now it points you at the same folder as the original file for saving this new file. Duplicate points you at the desktop. So it is really a Relative-File-Location Duplicate, not a Save-As as we know it.

I will give you a scenario. You have a 10 page document called "10 Steps" with the 10 steps of your business plan, 2 pages per step. You want to share 3 of those steps with a client, and keep 7 secret. In the past you opened the original document, deleted 7 steps, pressed Save-As and saved the 3 page updated file with a new name, maybe "Client John Smith Presentation". It would be in the same folder as the original file. Now using ML Save-As you open the 10 page document called "10 Steps" and delete 7 steps. You press Save-As and save the 3 page file with a new name. The original file called "10 Steps" is now the same as the 3 page file you just saved. Your original 10 page document is hidden inside the Versions date. To retrieve it you need to open the original file, select the versions menu, review the past versions, deduce which was the original document, then select that. The work flow is the same as Duplicate, the problem is the same, and the familiar Save-As is now doing the very thing people asked that it stopped doing. If your versions folder crashes or you are working on a shared server, the original 10 page document is lost.

This is a complete fiasco because the Save-As workflow has been the same for 30 years and now they changed it in a fundamental way without telling anyone but rather pretending that they have brought it back as it was. Insanity.

Steve.

This is a complete fiasco because the Save-As workflow has been the same for 30 years and now they changed it in a fundamental way without telling anyone but rather pretending that they have brought it back as it was. Insanity.

Yep

It would have been better to have not have acted like they had given it back to us rather than change it in such a fundamental way that the unknowing will lose data.

Look, it's not that hard, and I came here looking for a solution. Also I have come only recently from Windows, which as an engineer I still use for work. And there are things like the lack of a backspace key, and the lack of "Saveas" and the simple windows file structure that drove me crazy, still does.

But, in "Pages" and Mountain Lion at least, open your document, press "duplicate," which is really just a mac word for "Saveas." Done I have no doubt simply to be different to windows.

The duplicate document opens with a blued title "copy of" name which can be immediately changed, just as you would with "Saveas." The only thing, and it is a big thing, is that I do not get the windows file/directory movement option that comes with "saveas." Feedback welcome on this point.

Even I can do it Just think "duplicate as ..... duplicate as ...... duplicate as." Resistance is futile!

JCSheepdog wrote:

 

 

But, in "Pages" and Mountain Lion at least, open your document, press "duplicate," which is really just a mac word for "Saveas." Done I have no doubt simply to be different to windows.

But Duplicate and Save As aren't the same thing at all; that's the crux of the problem and the whole reason for this garganuan thread. Mac users have had Save As all the back to the earliest days of the OS (before Windows existed), but it has been taken away. Look back over some of the previous posts which explain the difference.

Donnie,

I am sure you are right, and while I symphise with the disenfranchised Mac users and the loss of their apparent historic perogative, but really I dont care.

If I can open a document, and rename it and edit it as necessary in the same number of easy steps, it quacks like a duck. And, if it quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck ......

JCSheepdog wrote:

 

Donnie,

I am sure you are right, and while I symphise with the disenfranchised Mac users and the loss of their apparent historic perogative, but really I dont care.

Well, Sheep...welcome to the world of all the Mac apologists that go way back in this thread. I love your philosophy, which so perfectly matches theirs: "This change doesn't affect MY workflow, so why should I give a **** about how it affects anyone else's?" Very generous of you.

If I can open a document, and rename it and edit it as necessary in the same number of easy steps, it quacks like a duck. And, if it quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck ......

Of course, your case isn't helped by the fact that you don't know what the **** you're talking about, either. You have no clue as to how Save As is actually used in the real world of productive computing. And you obviously have no clue that Duplicate takes SIX steps to achieve the same result that Save As accomplishes in TWO steps.

That's one very mutant duck you're pulling along behind you on a string. Best of luck to you.