iChat 6 Yahoo invisible mode problem

Question

iChat 6 Yahoo invisible mode problem

Hi there.

At first glance it was really great hearing that iChat finally supports Yahoo!.

But here is the big problem that makes iChat useless once again for me:

I always login to Yahoo messaging service in "invisible" mode.

In iChat when I log in and I lost the connection for any reason (e.g. VPN connection is lost)

and then let iChat logs in when the connection is there again I become "Available" to the list of my friends then afterwards iChat sets my status to invisible.

So every time that this happens everybody knows that I'm there.

The problem goes even furthur. When I log out of Yahoo in iChat, using either contextual menu or Command+L, and then log in to Yahoo! again the same things happen. iChat makes me available and then invisible.

Logging in as invisible only works when you yourself quitted iChat last time without logging out or loosing the internet connection.

The problem goes even furthur. I just realized that when iChat app is not running it uses push notification to launch when someone sends me an IM. Thus, iChat runs itself, like FaceTime when you receive a call while it is not running, and you see that message. This push notification is both good and bad.

Good: I like push notification and the whole idea about that.

Bad: I cannot disable this AND even when iChat is not running and you lost your internet connection or make a vpn connection to your workplace or somewhere else, you become available to your friend list and then "invisible". (Do not forget that all these happens, altough that you are not running iChat).

This is soooooo bad, because everybody will find out that I am at my computer, even though that I the App is not running. Sigh again!

Any idea how to solve this problem or just Apple should fix it??

P.S. If Apple does not fix the problem and or there is no workaround I think they should just forget about advertising of Yahoo support in iChat, since the whole philosophy of invisible mode is blown and I think invisible mode in Instant messaging is something that we cannot just forget about it.

So till then back to Adium. Sigh!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jul 29, 2011 3:44 AM

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Answer 1

Jul 29, 2011 5:35 AM in response to linked.account

If you want to see what is really happening just add yourself in another Yahoo account and log in with another IM client (would be better to do it on another machine....) and then turn on/off your airport or if you have a vpn connection connect and disconnect or use log off command. All of these actions make you visible to your list and then invisible.....

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Answer 2

Jul 29, 2011 12:37 PM in response to linked.account

Hi,

Are you using the option in the General section of the iChat Preferences to Not change the Status to Available ?

Your Pane will look slightly different to this iChat 4 pic

8:37 PM Friday; July 29, 2011

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Answer 3

Jul 29, 2011 9:04 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

There is no such an option at all !!

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Answer 4

Jul 30, 2011 11:09 AM in response to linked.account

Hi,

Sorry about that. 😮

In that case, as there is now the Show All my Accounts in One list does that need to be unticked and an option in each Account setting that enables the "Change to Available status on Start". (if they have joined all the accounts in one place it would make sense to move the setting to the Invidual Account pane)

Also the line that now reads Show all my accounts in one list is what used to be the setting to show all Buddy Lists with the same Status in iChat 5 (Similar but different)

There are ways to make iChat not show the windows on Launch (which is not the same thing be may be the closest)

1) In the System Preferences > General Pane there is a check box near the bottom to open the windows that were open (in any app) on Quit when it is reopened.

This can either be Unticked to not have iChat Automatically log in an Account or

2) Close all windows in iChat before Quitting.

My understanding from Chatting with EZ Jim is that iChat will then start "Windowless" and the Menu Bar icon menu can be used to Change Status first (Doing so does log you in)

3) Deselect in iChat Preferences > Accounts before quitting the option that says Use this Account.
Effectively this closes the Buddy List window(s) before Quitting giving you the option to select Status before it logs an account in.

Of Course 2) and 3) require that you have the option to display the Menu Bar icon (Show Status in Menu Bar) selected in the General section of the iChat Preferences as you show in your Picture.

7:08 PM Saturday; July 30, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
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"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 5

Jul 30, 2011 12:45 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Ralph Johns (UK) wrote:

Hi,

Sorry about that. 😮

In that case, as there is now the Show All my Accounts in One list does that need to be unticked and an option in each Account setting that enables the "Change to Available status on Start". (if they have joined all the accounts in one place it would make sense to move the setting to the Invidual Account pane)

Unfortunatley these option does not exist at all.

I think maybe I explained the problem a little bit complicated and maybe that caused a misunderstanding of the problem (sorry for that 😉). As far as I understood you think that I don't have the option to login to Yahoo! as invisible. If this is the case I should say that no the problem is not that. (Although that specific option "Change to Invisible status on Start" or "Log me as invisible" does not exist, you can simply put the status of the account as invisible before log in)

I'll explain it once again and try to explain it better this time. I do have the option to set the status for each account seperately when I have the whole iChat buddy even though this option is not there in preferences. So far so good. I can set Yahoo to be invisible. I quit iChat when windows are open/closed and launch it again, it logs in as invisible and everything is fine.

The problem happens here: I lost internet/vpn connection and reconnect. While reconnecting iChat makes me for 1 2 second(s) available, even though that my status is set to be "invisible", then makes me invisible.

Or I myslef simply press "Command+L" to log off. Afterwards when I want to log in I set my status as invisible and log in. What happens?? iChat makes me once again visible to my buddy list for a second and then makes me invisible. All these happens no matter whether windows are closed or not.

iChat can only log in to Yahoo as invisible when quit it and launch it again. Manually logging off and on or automatic reconnection after connection loss does not do this.

P.S. I tried all of the above suggestions but none of them has worked for me.

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Answer 6

Jul 30, 2011 1:14 PM in response to linked.account

Hi,

That is clearer than when I read the original post.

My experience has been with iChat 2 through 5 and there seem to be subtle changes in iChat 6 that I was not expecting.

I am currently relying on what I read here, what I can garner from my son and EZ Jim via iChat itself. (Sometimes I don't yet know the questions to ask them)
Thanks for the pics.

In other versions only the Bonjour Account as that few tabs and even that has more tick box options than your Yahoo account shows.

Now another thread states or found out that if the Bonjour Send as I type is set the Yahoo Text chats also do this and it has to be turned off as it is not letter by letter but a repeated send of what has been typed so far before sending (So a sentence gets sent as part, then a longer part and so on).

There used to be a setting for AIM logins that could be set to Automatically Login if disconnected.

All I have left in iChat 4 and 5 is a setting in the Video section about Starting up iChat if an External Camera is Turned On

It would be interesting if this setting has reappeared in either an AIM account or a Google/Jabber one and is effecting the Yahoo Login.

I can't see why the Yahoo Login does not stay completely Insible on restarting/Logging in in the circumstances your describe.

Although it would seem that iChat is somewhat Logging in before showing you the Buddy list(s) when starting from scratch but logging in when iChat is running

From an AIM Login point of view I can explain iChat's actions about starting up an account when an Off Line IM is sent.

When you start the Computer, iChatAgent starts up and runs in the background.

This maintains a "Listening presence" as it were on your account at the AIM servers.

If you are set to receive Off Line IMs then the AIM servers will try to send them.

iChatAgent will see this and start up iChat.

(There are ways to turn this On and Off if you want, on the AIM Settings web page)

I have no real experience using the Yahoo for Mac Beta (it has been at that stage for years) but it sounds like Yahoo does Off Line IMs as well.

With the current pics you have posted I see no direct way to alter this behaviour.

It may be a setting elsewhere does have some influence.

9:14 PM Saturday; July 30, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 7

Jul 31, 2011 11:24 AM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

I don't know if the iChat agent treats yahoo just like AIM or not but as I already said I think push notification is behind the scene and keeps a connection alive to Yahoo server. I think that process is responsible for this bug. iChat also asks me for my Yahoo password nearly every time that I start my mac, even though that iChat is not running which means that a process(push notification process or iChat Agent) wants to initiate a connection to Yahoo servers and is not able to read my password from keychain. I want to mention this behaviour also once again that iChat runs itself automatically while it is not running and someone sends me an IM in Yahoo. This confirms that there is a process listening to Yahoo server in background.

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Answer 8

Jul 31, 2011 12:28 PM in response to linked.account

Hi,

Go to the Applications/Utilities folder and open Keychain Access

In here click on Passwords > Applications (Open the reveal triangle)

Find the Yahoo entry

Double click it to see the info panel.

Click the Access tab

See if it restricts it to just iChat (Which would exclude iChatAgent)

My Leopard version pic of my Yahoo Panel restricted to Yahoo for Mac 3 Beta

As I mentioned earlier, iChatAgent does provide a link to the servers before iChat is started up.

If you don't want to be interrupted by iChat Starting when Off Line IMs are sent you may have to look at the Setting at Yahoo on your Yahoo account.

(Actually I checked my account and could not find any such setting on quick check. The Yahoo Messenger page takes you to your general settings but has little control over Yahoo Messenger.)

AIM certainly has a Settings page where Off Line IMs can be turned On or Off.

You also get a Chat IM from "AIMSysMessage" asking you confirm if you wish to receive more when you receive the "First" one).

As you say though, this Change of Status during/ before Login is finalised does look like something that has been overlooked.

I would report it here http://www.apple.com/feedback/ichat.html

8:27 PM Sunday; July 31, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 9

Aug 2, 2011 9:50 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Thank you for the help.

I posted/reported the feedback/bug to Apple even before posting here.

I was hoping tha it gains lots of attention so that Apple fixes it ASAP but unfortunately it didn't (apparently people haven't realized the problem in their day to day work at all)

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Answer 10

Aug 3, 2011 11:55 AM in response to linked.account

Hi,

As far as these Communities go Apple Host the web site and employ the Hosts.

Of the 4 or 5 Hosts they all have some Communities that they follow.

Having said that they all spend time on the "Report Abuse" action desk following up on the reports people send in.

Posters that have reached Level 6 in the current scheme can post in Community within the Lounge for New Technical Issues.

However like the Feedback page there tends to be little response (if any) and no news about how the info is received further up the chain.

Currently you are the only person reporting this actively in a thread.

( I concede there may be many more)

7:55 PM Wednesday; August 3, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
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"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 11

Aug 6, 2011 12:43 PM in response to linked.account

I'm now quite sure that the process called "IMServicePlugInAgent" is responsible for these problem since it is the one which makes connections to internet for iChat (I think also FaceTime but not tested yet). This process relaunches every time that the internet connection goes live and when I lost my VPN connection it disappears from the Activity list and comes again and that's exactly the time that it makes me visible to my Yahoo list, even though iChat is not running. Below is the picture of this process. The red unfilled rectangle shows that it has a connection/handler/ access to Yahoo and the last line show the connection to Yahoo servers. The red filled rectangle at the last line is my IP address which I blured it.

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Answer 12

Aug 6, 2011 1:28 PM in response to linked.account

Hi,

In the System Preferences there is a new pane which stores emails and other Internet access "Names"

From the sound of things it is this that may be causing the issue.

Previously in Leopard and Snow Leopard (And earlier in fact) iChatAgent did the "listening" for iChat to the servers.

For AIM Accounts part of this was to enable iChat to be launched when someone sent you a Message and you were Off Line in iChat.

There is a setting in the iChat > Preferences > General Section which allows you to set whether you are Fully Off Line on Quit (When I Quit iChat, Set My Status To Off Line)
This seems to imply that there are time when you are not fully Logged out.

I would try two things.

1) If the Yahoo Name/ID is in the new System Preference Pane see if iChat can mange without it being there (You may get a message to Re-add it when you login to Yahoo)

2) Set the Status setting in the iChat Preferences so that the account is going from Off Line to Invisible and not showing any other thing (in between)

There is a third thing.

In the iChat Preferences > General Section In Leopard and Snow I have a setting to make the Status to be "Available" at iChat Start up....

Opps you already posted a pic that says that is no longer there.

I also see from one of your earlier pic that the Set the Same Status is now part of the Buddy list Menu for th Status Drop Down.

Is there a similar "At iChat Launch set Status to .. " that has been added to either the Menu Bar icon Status Indicator/Menu drop down or to another iChat Manu item ?

I would look in iChat Menu > Accounts or the Window Menu or possibly the View Menu as the most likely places.

(I really need to take that MacBook Pro off my son for a while 😉)

9:28 PM Saturday; August 6, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 13

Aug 7, 2011 1:17 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

There is a setting in the iChat > Preferences > General Section which allows you to set whether you are Fully Off Line on Quit ( When I Quit iChat, Set My Status To Off Line)
This seems to imply that there are time when you are not fully Logged out.

I've already tried this. This option makes it even worse, since it makes me evey time that I quit iChat offline. In this case iChat makes me available to my buddy list next time and then makes me invisible. (Setting the status to offline,no matter how it is triggered, makes you visible to your list for the next time). That's the reason that I unchecked this box. This way I can at least stay invisble for the next login when I myself manually quit iChat.

1) If the Yahoo Name/ID is in the new System Preference Pane see if iChat can mange without it being there (You may get a message to Re-add it when you login to Yahoo)

It's not possible. Adding an account through iChat adds that account to the preferences automatically.

2) Set the Status setting in the iChat Preferences so that the account is going from Off Line to Invisible and not showing any other thing (in between)

There is no such an option.

I also see from one of your earlier pic that the Set the Same Status is now part of the Buddy list Menu for th Status Drop Down.

Is there a similar "At iChat Launch set Status to .. " that has been added to either the Menu Bar icon Status Indicator/Menu drop down or to another iChat Manu item ?

Unfortunately not!

(I really need to take that MacBook Pro off my son for a while 😉)

If it is running Lion you should really do it. It is really a great OS and I'm loving it more and more(and would love it more if apple fixes these bugs especially this one.)

I found something weired. Even though that I set my status to invisible and I am really invisible. My status in menu bar is set to "Available" and clicking on "Invisible" in menu bar does not change it. (Talikng of MVC (Model View Conrtoller) if you are familiar with...) I think this view in menu bar does not update and when I log in, the conrotller's state gets changed by this view (set to Availavle) then another view (in the buddy list) changes the controller value to "Invisible" but since the first view in menu bar does not gets updated it still shows my status as "Available" and next time that I log in the same problem happens. It's just a guess that this MVC is acting like this.

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Answer 14

Aug 7, 2011 1:38 PM in response to linked.account

Hi,

Re 1) Thanks for that info

Re 2) You covered that in the initial part of the reply (At least that was what I was talking about)

My son has allowed me to touch the computer and have a little play (Mainly doing three fingered swipes and stuff which I can see me getting used to). However I still have yet to persuade him to let me have it for a prolonged period. 😢

The fact that any active setting change to make the Status to be "Available" on iChat launch (Or not) has been removed seems to be part of the issue.

From what you describe I think this is still active and that at an account launch Availalble gets chosen before it refers to any other setting. (The stuff in your initial part of this reply and 2) )

It would seem that Apple have resumed no-one was using that setting and removed it.

And what they have done has not been tested as fully as it should.

As a consequence any attempts at a workaround do not seem to be working.

This seems to be along the lines of your info with the Pic.

I notice that the Yahoo App itself has a check box to "Sign-In as Invisible" on the Log-in panel.
This would suggest that they make this setting earlier in the Login process than where Apple have it in iChat.

At present I have only come across one other thread that mentions iChat and Invisible and that poster did not even mention it concerning the Yahoo Login (they didn't say what sort of account).

I have posted in the Lounge to raise it as a "New Technical Issue" but have not even had a reply from other Lounge users (possibly too new).

NEW

Going back to your Menu Bar icon drop down and the Buddy List status pic.
That does seem odd.

I am wondering if that is caused by when you have two accounts launched/logged in and then the Set the Same Status item is used and that it is "remembering" this when you only have one account logged in.

iChat 4 does not have this setting anywhere. All Accounts are always set to the same Status.

iChat 5 has the setting in the iChat Preferences > General Section and your earlier pic has it in one of the drop down menus about the Status. (Most Like a Combined Buddy List Status drop down)

9:38 PM Sunday; August 7, 2011

Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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Answer 15

alex2c

Level 1

5 points

Aug 27, 2011 3:30 PM in response to linked.account

I've been using iChat for a few days and I, too, have noticed the problem that you were experiencing. If you haven't solved your problem yet, I did manage to find some sort of a workaround. Prior to using iChat, I used the official Yahoo Messenger beta app. If you don't already have it, download and install it from http://messenger.yahoo.com.

Upon right clicking a contact or a group in the Yahoo application, you are shown with something called "Stealth Settings". Right click the group(s) that you don't want to be seen by and choose Permanently Offline under Stealth Settings. Log out, quit the Yahoo application and open iChat and log in as invisible. You can now use iChat in invisible mode without being spotted by others when your internet connection drops. I've tested this by monitoring my status on a different computer and messing around with my internet connection. You can safely delete the Yahoo app, as that will not affect any settings you have already made.
The downside is that even if you change your status in iChat, you will still appear as offline to anyone to whom you have set the stealth setting to permanently offline.

Also, here are the settings I am using in iChat.

Hope this helps!

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