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Why no "Streaming Buffer" option??

I am using iTunes 10.4 (80) on a MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo running Mac OS 10.6.8.


iTunes help tells me that I can do the following: "You can also choose iTunes > Preferences, click Advanced, and choose Large from the Streaming Buffer Size pop-up menu."


However, in my iTunes, no such option exists at all. There is nothing anywhere in the Preferences relating to "Streaming Buffer Size."


The issue is iTunes radio, and very frequent drop-outs due to, I imagine, rebuffering.


Any tips??


Thanks!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Jul 29, 2011 8:29 AM

Reply
39 replies

Jul 24, 2012 8:54 AM in response to Boris Rio

The command line trick (see previous posts) did help me on iTunes 1.6 but two days ago I was careless enough to download the 1.6.3 update. Now the stream just crashes after about an hour. So I ended up using this player: http://www.clementine-player.org/ for radio. It is not as pretty as iTunes, but it runs the steam all day long with no problems.



It seems that iTunes developers are going backwards in their progress. iTunes has gotten a lot worse over the years. Little by little it is becoming more and more dummified and the quality is not what it used to be.

Jul 27, 2012 7:35 PM in response to Boris Rio

Boris, one more player you might want to look at for streaming:

http://www.videolan.org


VLC has been around for a decade and has gone a long way form what it used to be. It does lots more the steam it plays video, allows you to turn your machine in to a streaming server where other VLC clients can connect. It plays files from local and remote disks and of cause the internet radio. (But you have to make your own play list)


It does not have the features such as iTunes, no synch with iPhone or iPad, no iTunes store, but as a player it is much better for playing net streams then iTunes (crash or stutter) or Clementine (stutter sometimes)


VLC has a latency setting under Preferences / Input & Codex / Default Caching Level. I've been using it on my MacBook Pro for two days now - no problems.

Sep 27, 2012 8:37 AM in response to Chatlanian

Thank you so very much for turning me on to Clementine player. I have scoured waay too may forums looking for an answer to streaming radio interrupting all the time for no specific reason. This happened on every website and every app I tried from Itunes, to Winamp to shoutcast to VLC player, etc. Clementine has been playing for over 2 hours now without a hiccup. I did have to increase the buffer to 12800.


Thanks again, Rob

Sep 27, 2012 8:43 AM in response to streamer201

You are very welcome Rob!

Interestingly enough for me VLC works the best for streaming. no drops and no crashes. The only thing I had to change was Preferences / Input & Codecs / Caching / Default Cashing level = Higher latency.


Although Clementine works well too. I've been using both for quite some time, no problems. Runs all working day just fine. The new iTunes that came out recently did not fix the streaming problem.

Sep 27, 2012 8:57 AM in response to Chatlanian

The thing for me is/was that I had buffering problems no matter what internet stattion I listened to or what software I used. I only have a medium speed DSL line but I never have problems with YouTube stopping. It does buffer, especially on 720p but does not stop.


For any others reading tis post I found the easiest way to get the stream running again was to simply tap the up or down volume key on my keyboard. I have not read anyone else using this method to get the stream running again.


I use 10.7.4 OSX currently with my iMac (mid 2011 model) but have the same problem both here and elsewhere with my MBP running Snow Leopard. Hope this helps others. This has been a devil of a problem to diagnose and fix.


Oh yea, I also tried changing channels on my wireless router to minimize sharing the same channel with my neighbors. There are about 5 other signals my wi-fi picks up and 3 of them were on the same channel until I changed that. But it didn't solve the problemd.


I use VLC for most of my non .mov files but could not get it to work reliably for internet radio streaming. I was trying to save the .pls files from the station(s) but they would not play/connect after the first time playing. I probably just don't know how to save the right station info.

Sep 27, 2012 9:08 AM in response to streamer201

Rob, Clementitne has a newer installers, http://builds.clementine-player.org/mac/ Latest installer is released today, however they do not update the fornt page with the main download. The new version (which you will not get via update for some reason) has many bug fixes and supports Google Drive, Last.fm, DI.fm Sky.fm Spotfy, Grooveshark, Magnatune...

Sep 29, 2012 4:52 AM in response to Chatlanian

Chatlanian:

A new head scratcher here. I thought my internet radio stream was cutting out because of a buffer problem. I have been using the Clementine player for a few days now. It is much more reliable than any other software I have used, but I am still getting seemingly random "cut outs" but now I see from the EQ like meter display on the player interface that I am getting a steady feed from the station with no buffering issues, but the audio stops coming from my speakers.


If I tap the volume up/down key on my keyboard my speakers start working again. Sometimes the audio stops for no apparent reason and othe times it is triggered by me opening a web page or launching another program on my iMac. So, this has to be some sort of problem in the iMac or the OSX. I run 10.7.4 with current updates, 16gig RAM. In preferences my sound output is configured to headphones. I use external speakers but the problem also happens using internal speakers as well.


I ask you since you seem to be knowledgable on these streaming matters. What else can I offer for tech specs,etc.? Any other diagnostics I could run to see what is happening to create the "glitch"?


This seems to be a very common problem that Apple can't or won't diagnose and fix.


many thanks, Rob.

Sep 29, 2012 10:25 AM in response to streamer201

@Streamer201


You kindly give me more credit then I deserve, despite well over a decade as a software engineer I have not done one project that involved sound or video streaming. My area of expertise is enterprise web apps and mobile applications.


My knowledge of how sound is being processed is rather minimal, bordering on a level of an "advanced user" because as a hobby I like to produce music. With this disclaimer in mind let me try to answer your post.


When it comes to playback in my personal experience on my MacBook Pro the only problem I have is with streams, and not with playback of an audio in any format I may have stored locally on the computer. The iTunes dies after a few minutes of playing an MP3 stream from http://www.di.fm or http://www.sky.fm which are the only two net radio stations I listen to. Clementine plays stream fine as long as the format is AAC 128k, it stops and hangs when playing MP3 265k stream. The only player I found that plays MP3 256k stream for hours on end is VLC.


streamer201 wrote:

...I am still getting seemingly random "cut outs" but now I see from the EQ like meter display on the player interface that I am getting a steady feed from the station with no buffering issues, but the audio stops coming from my speakers.


If I tap the volume up/down key on my keyboard my speakers start working again. Sometimes the audio stops for no apparent reason and othe times it is triggered by me opening a web page or launching another program on my iMac...


In your case however you manage to get the stream playing again by tapping the sound. This is very bazar. Back in the old days when we had analogue stereos and radios this was rather common, because the volume numb was mechanical, consisted of a piece of metal wire sliding up and down a cylinder wrapped in a coil of capper wire. Any physical abstraction would brake the contact causing the audio to stop playing through the speakers.


In computer world we have digital sound controls, there is no capper wire coil, there is no mechanical contact. But on Apple when you tap the volume keys it also plays a "beep". I am really going out on a limb here: I wonder if that fact of sending a signal to play this "beep" in some way resets the mac playback system causing it to re-buffer or release some memory… I really do not know how the insides of it are built.


What is really weird is that from your post I read that it happens for you only on streaming audio and not on any audio. (correct?) I would think that no matter what the input to the player is (local MP3 file, or remote stream) the output of the player becomes input to the Mac sound system and is processed the same way before it becomes the analogue input for the speakers. Perhaps it is not so. We need a mac audio specialist here. I do not really know, only guessing. Is it the same with the playback of a local media file? Is there some sort of speaker protection built in to your external speakers, perhaps to prevent busting the membrane when there is too much lows?


Whatever the case is, the stream buffer should only affect the constant flow of data from the external source (web) to the processing player. After that the data is collected in a sort of a virtual holding tank (the buffer) and being processed for playback by the player which in turn passes it at a more or less constant rate to the Mac sound output system which in turn converts the digital to analogue and sends to the speakers. That built in system also receives the audio in a digital format, perhaps it has a buffer of it's own, perhaps it does not clear the memory properly and every now and then it runs out of allowed memory. Does not matter how much RAM you have. If developer tells a module in the program that it can use X amount of RAM it will use X and once it needs X+1 it runs out of memory.


Do you have any other third party sound processing installed? Something that perhaps attaches itself to the OSX sound system and is trying to make things "better". In most cases it only makes things worse.


My setup is:

MacBook Pro (Early 2012) - Last 17" ever made.

OSX 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion)

8GB RAM

VLC 2.0.3 (Plays any streams no problems at all)

Clementine nightly build 1.0.1-670 (Plays most of the stuff OK, except MP3 stream that is more or equal to 256k)


I do not suggest for a moment that upgrading to Mountain Lion will fix your problems. I do not believe Apple has changed anything in the sound system at all. In my own case the playback experience remained the same.


Try process of elimination to diagnose the problem.


A) Play MP3s from your Mac using the same player you use for streams - dose it stutter the playback after a prolong use? If it does - you know it has nothing to do with stream input.


B) Try playing stream via the most reliable stream player you have and not use the external speakers. If it stutters then it is not the speaker protection system of any kind.


In all of those cases make sure your system does not play any other notification beeps, such as sound adjustment beep, email or chat notification beep etc., as they might cause the same effect as you described in your post.

Sep 30, 2012 10:29 AM in response to Chatlanian

Sorry if I am hogging this thread. Hopefully it will help others with the same problem and symptoms.

- I can play stored audio files in Clementine or VLC (.mp3/.wav) and/or iTunes music all day long (some .mp3 and some converted in iTunes to AAC 128) without a hiccup

- The only notification sounds I have enabled are the boot up sound and e-mail alert (in Mac Mail). My volume up/down keys (F11/12) do utter nary a sound when pressing them

- I played one of your mentioned streams http://www.di.fm yesterday using only my iMac speakers and it streamed fine without stopping

- I listen to the local NPR station in the mornings. I paid close attention today and there are definately buffer issues with that stream. I changed to the national NPR stream. www.npr.org and had only minor buffering issus. It never quit altogether.


- The interruptions seem to clear up when I only play audio through the built-in speakers. Interesting you would mention a kind of speaker protection in my external monitor speaskers (Audio Engine A5's). Never would have thought of that possibility. However, this problem happens even when I only have the audio raised by 2 or 3 bars (on screen volume control meters). It is really just above a whisper so I don't bother others in the house.


- I have also played my favorite internet radio station www.radioparadise.com for a couple of hours today using my Sony Professional headphones MDR-7506 witout a problem.


Could it just be my expensive A5's causing the problem? Jeesh, never, ever would have considered that the source. But thanks to your interest in this problem maybe you stumbled on the cause. I will keep monitoring (sic) the situation for a couple of days and see what happens

Sep 30, 2012 7:41 PM in response to streamer201

@streamer201


I thought of a built-in speaker protection system cutting off the play back because I had similar problem when I rented out a recording studio in San Leandro. I was using a MacBook and Qubase 4 recording software. The MacBook audio output was hooked up to a set of expensive studio monitor speakers and the sound output on the MacBook was cranked up all the way while the sound knob on the speakers was set to low comfortable level. (About 60db which is the volume of spoken voice in a normal conversation).


As I was playing a section of the track, working on adjusting EQ on it, I've experienced the audio playback cutting off. At first I to thought that it was something wrong either with the Qubase studio or MacBook. While at home, using a pair of studio head-phones I did not experience this problem.


Basically what was happening is the analogue output from the MacBook was overpowering the speakers input system. The speakers had their own amplifier and it would cut off the input to protect itself if the input levels were too high for it. To solve this problem I set the output on the MacBook much lower and encased the output volume on the speakers themselves. After that there were no cuts.


Perhaps what you experience here are similar symptoms cause by two different problems, one is the balance of the input volume to your speaker system, the other is the quality of the stream you might be tuned in to. Both would cause the sound to stop, the latter would resume from where it left of in most cases, the former would continue form the further point in time, as if the cable to the sound output was momentarily unplugged.


In the case of speaker protection case - tapping the sound would fool the speaker protection system in to opening up the throttle at least until the next spike comes alone and triggers the protection system to close the input.

Oct 21, 2012 3:30 PM in response to KWBum

I'm going to reply here to this thread because it is the closest to my problem and I want to leave something here so that others may be able to troubleshoot the problem I have.


Machine: MacBook Air purchased Oct 2012 OS X 10.8.2 iTunes 10.7 (21)


iTunes doesn't play FLAC files, so I have to convert my FLAC files to m4a. Come on, Apple, get with the program. Now onto the real problem and solution.


*** PROBLEM ***


The m4a files are on a Time Capsule (TC) that is about 30 vertical feet from the machine, connected wirelessly. During iTunes playback, there is stuttering every 10 minutes or so, and it is much worse (unusable) when Time Machine is running.


NOTE: Playing audio files (including WAV and AIFF files) from wireless time capsule should work flawlessly. Apple builds the operating system, builds all of the hardware, all of the software, so there is no excuse for degredation of performance that I can see.


Here is what is going on in default iTunes config: iTunes constantly streams m4a from disk. Quality is lossless, about 700 kbps, so about 2x size of very high quality mp3. I'm observing iTunes stream the file during playback at around this speed. So activity monitor shows about 88K per second network when I'm doing nothing else (Safari, all other network users are closed).


This is a problem. If there is any reason to read or write the TC outside of iTunes, the playback will stutter because iTunes hasn't buffered playback sufficiently.


*** SOLUTION ***


Earlier in this thread I see this solution which works for me [Apple: why can't I set these values in the iTunes preference pages?]


# Set iTunes to have 14 seconds of buffer for typical m4a files

$ defaults write com.apple.iTunes stream-buffer-size 1280

$ defaults write com.apple.iTunes file-buffer-size 1280


These values work well for me. Larger values appear to cause iTunes to hang while buffering and take up a huge amount of memory (I think it uses 100MB for buffer when you set these values to 128000)


Hope this helps someone.

Why no "Streaming Buffer" option??

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