Currently Being ModeratedJul 29, 2011 4:17 PM (in response to joseeneassilva)
I see your point, but what if a new update comes out with some new and really cool thing that we would want?
Well, Lion is great a runs very fast and smooth on my machine. Also iWork with "Save As.." is cool too and comfortable. Nothing big and spectacular is in the new iWork beside taking out our "Save As.."
So, for me is worth staying with the old, so to speak, version of iWork but still running the super nuclear bomb LION. lol, lol, ..., iWork will be good for ages, why so big tragedy? Say with the old one and use the "Save As..." and don't get complicated with Versions, Duplicate, Resume, Full Screen ..., Who needs them? - For sure, I don't. But what I need instead and am looking forward is to get a RoyalFlush tonight in my game here in Vegas ..., lol, lol,
Now, serious, Don't upgrade.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 29, 2011 6:03 PM (in response to RoyalFlushAK(s))
Vegas, huh? Way more interesting than upgrades and downgrades, for sure.
Seriously: they should have made those new things optional. It would make much more sense to me.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 8:06 AM (in response to joseeneassilva)
Eventually, people are going to want an upgrade.
Saving in Lion is sooo poorly implemented, I can't begin to express how frustrating it is.
Here's a simple example from using TextEdit, but it's just as bad in Pages and all the other apps. Consider this:
I open file named database.xml file and edit it with TextEdit. Previously, all I would have to do was hit Cmd-S or go to the File menu and click "Save". Done. That's it.
Now, my save options are:
Save a Version…
Export as PDF…
Revert to Saved
"Save a Version..." creates a new file in the original file location named database.txt -- not what I want to do.
Duplicate creates a new copy and now gives me the new option of "Save…" which still wants to save a text file and will force me to go through a warning dialogue to save over the original document - which I just wanted to save in the first place.
To add insult to injury, if I opened the file by browsing to it, the finder is pointed to the right location. But if I didn't, I have to hunt through my folders and find the location where I want to save the file, change the extension from .txt to .xml, and go through the warning dialogue stating that I'm about to save over a file of the same name.
Again, compare this to the previous work flow:
1. Open the xml document
2. Edit it
3. Click save.
That's it. No changing the friggin' extension, no new versions or duplication or hunting through folders. No warning dialogues.
This really is a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible (I really can't say it enough), TERRIBLE implementation. SOOOO ANNOYING! Please give us back Save and Save As...
We went from elegant to byzantine. This is the kind of crap we'd expect from Microsoft, not Apple. We need to tell apple through their support pages in the apps (go to Pages menu and click "Provide Pages Feedback...")
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 8:31 AM (in response to msw70)
Continuing with your example of using TextEdit, is there some reason you think you need to save the file at all, other than obviously not understanding how Versions work?
Just close TextEdit.
I'm not speaking for or against the change, but this "byzantine" process you've invented is entirely your own creation.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 9:13 AM (in response to Marc Wilson)
If it's my creation, it still seems like a necessary invention. Just try my test case and see for yourself. Here are my steps:
Open an xml file by right clicking on it and choosing open with TextEdit.
Edit the file.
Close the file.
Look at the file in finder and note that the .xml extension has been changed to .txt. It is no longer accessible to the app that was referencing it, because that app can't find the xml file it's looking for.
And yes, I have gone into preferences on TextEdit and unchecked "Add ."txt" extension to plain text files" (although I do not think I should have to tell an app not to mess with the extensions on files where an extension already exists).
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 9:40 AM (in response to RoyalFlushAK(s))
It eludes me why Apple decided to cripple TextEdit (and other Apps) by stripping it of its ability to immediately save a document as HTML, or Web archive, ODT, or the various Word extensions that come with their respective editions.
Previously (on OS X Leopard and Snow Leopard), TextEdit would allow you to employ the "Save As" function not only to save the same document with a different name, but also to have that document saved in a different format.
In TextEdit, you CAN save it in a different format - using the same trick as with preview (i.e. Duplicate and then Save). You are then presented with a dialog that lets you choose the name and format." This is a "workaround" to get the same functionality out of TextEdit, but Apple not presenting us with a quick option to do this still leaves the application crippled.
I've seen this before. Some programmers like to change things, even if it's not an improvement.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 10:00 AM (in response to msw70)
Hm. That's a design flaw. It shouldn't manipulate the filename.
But you're right, it does. Just opening the file doesn't change the extension, but as soon as you alter the file in anyway, it renames it.
This is, I would bet, due to Apple's continuing confusion of what metadata actually means. They've gone back and forth a couple of times trying to decide whether HFS metadata, or file extensions, controlled application association. In this case, I think they got it wrong. They're trying to make sure that since you edited the file with TextEdit, it became a TextEdit file, so the extension should be changed to one TextEdit uses.
Still it's a very specific use-case, easily solved. Don't use TextEdit.
The problem isn't Versions, it's that TextEdit renamed the file. You'd have the same problem whether Versions was there, or not.
Personally, I recommend TextWrangler.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 10:09 AM (in response to Marc Wilson)
Thanks for the suggestion, Marc. I try to avoid adding more and more third party software to make up for the shortcomings of the OS native stuff, but there's no getting around it, it seems. Pathfinder for Finder, TextWrangler for TextEdit, etc...
And you're right about it not being a versions issue. I still think Duplicate is a weird and unnecessary intermediate step for Save As... But then again, they didn't ask me.
Currently Being ModeratedJul 31, 2011 10:17 AM (in response to msw70)
I never assume the OS-provided tools are going to be useful for anything other than the most trivial tasks... I use appropriate tools. TextEdit is not appropriate for editing markup files, and would not be, Versions or file association metadata aside.
My problem is that I'm multi-OS-homed, and it's hard to find the same tool that works everywhere. *Equivalent*? Sure. But not the same tool.
TextWrangler has lots of swiss-army-knife style blades that lets you do all sorts of things, and it's free, too. How can you go wrong? I think if I were to become Mac exclusively, I'd just buy bbedit and be done with it.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 11, 2012 3:02 PM (in response to Marc Wilson)
Maybe I miss something, but for me the use of "save as" was creating a new document (keynotes mainly) form an other one (to use a proposal for one client to make a new one for a other one but not starting from blue print. Now I have to "duplicate" then "Move" to the correct customer folder, then "Rename".
Maybe I miss the new way to do it, but as I edit 10 proposal a day and send them to my customers (using cloud or Dropbox), I begin to be bored with such a long process.
But I am ready learn what is the correct way to do it. If any body can teach me.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 11, 2012 3:14 PM (in response to RoyalFlushAK(s))
In an other post I found the solution thanks to Peggy :
Save As… has returned with Mountain Lion. Hold down the Option/alt key while clicking on the File menu & there it is! It also has a default keyboard shortcut.