Previous 1 28 29 30 31 32 Next 516 Replies Latest reply: Aug 21, 2013 3:10 PM by nicowieditz Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • Mark Lord Level 1 Level 1

    No, unfortunately not. I keep waiting for ProTools to stop being overpriced and underpowered - but it's never happened. More to the point, as someone who is a composer at least 50% of the time it's a pretty rubbish tool. (Granted I get a couple of jobs a year where people say - "have you got ProTools?", but when I say no they just sned me a bunch of Stems and don't seem to bat an eyelid.) Avid should also be congratulated on being the only company to actually have a worse attitude towards customers than Apple - which is quite an acheivement. No, if I was going to shell out that amount of money I'd go for the (ridiculously overpriced) Nuendo. But if Studio One can do everything I want and doesn't crash then why would I do that? It's only a tool after all...

  • fluffy Level 1 Level 1

    Yep, I've been trying out lots and lots of DAWs, and while many of them may be more stable and reliable than Logic, none of them have an interface that's as remotely usable and no-nonsense.  Live, Studio One, Rebirth, Renoise, Cubase, ProTools LE... all seem to have interfaces that are designed to show off how impressive their graphic designers are, and not how easy they are to use.  They all have some good IDEAS, but their implementations are all lousy.


    If it weren't for the Logic GUI lag problem I'd have no reason to look for anything else.  Hopefully with 10.8.3 it'll finally be usable enough, even if it isn't as silky-smooth as it was on 10.6.


    Also I hope that the Logic team just haven't been sitting on their ***** all this time; maybe there's a Logic X in the works, and maybe it'll be worth upgrading to (even if it's an even more substantial UI reboot than 8 was).

  • buddhistmarty Level 1 Level 1

    Can nuendo save your 500 Logic Pro tracks ?

    That means u can open logic work file with nuendo?

  • Mark Lord Level 1 Level 1

    Haha - if only... Now if all DAWS could load sessions completly from other DAWS that would keep the manufacturers on their toes...


    Fluffy - that's a shame - I was kinda hoping Studio One was going to be the one to change that. Still, I have heard good reports from some pros so it might still be worth checking out. I believe the new 2.5 update brought a lot features and user requests to the table...

  • fluffy Level 1 Level 1

    Yeah, Studio One is a good start, but it's far from usable at this point.  For example, I have multiple MIDI inputs (keyboard, drum kit, a few other miscellaneous controllers), and while it lets me set up multiple inputs and everything, it will only route my keyboard to anything. Not useful when I'm trying to record drums.  It's also very fiddly to get working with Presonus' own hardware, and the user interface is kind of weird in terms of how it handles tracks vs. instruments and whatnot.  It also shows a lot of information about what's available but no clear way to make that available stuff into in-use stuff.


    The timeline itself is pretty good, but it's basically a clone of Logic in that regard.  Which isn't a bad thing, of course.  Although one major difference between it and Logic is that parameter automation is done as a separate track rather than it being attached to the track itself.  It seems like it might actually be better in general - one of my big frustrations with Logic is being unable to easily separate automation data from the parameter that's being automated (say, if I want to copy one parameter to another, or I want to rearrange my plugins on the control strip or whatever).  I didn't play with it too much, though, since it just seemed like finding more good features in it would make me even more upset that basic things (like MIDI input routing) weren't working.


    Basically, Studio One feels like how Logic and Cubase felt 10 years ago - fiddly, weird, and inconsistent.

  • zeugmatis Level 1 Level 1

    Steve would never have allowed this. 


    We already have cubase and reason, they need to get their **** together or people are going to move on.  It can happen overnight.  Once people reach that critical mass, then this program will become irrelevant - VERY quickly.   

    Please keep that in mind. 


    <Edited By Host>

  • zeugmatis Level 1 Level 1

    We simply want to open the equalizer. 

    Would Steve let this happan.


    Debian Linux. 

  • Pancenter Level 6 Level 6

    fluffy wrote:


    Basically, Studio One feels like how Logic and Cubase felt 10 years ago - fiddly, weird, and inconsistent.


    Kind of like Logic under Mountain Lion today.


    Logic 5.xx of 10-11 years ago was a fairly stable product on both PC and Mac. 

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 Level 1

    Pacenter, I totally agree!


    About other DAWs.. I read somewhere that ProTools isn't 64 bit, which is obviously a game changer.  What I'm going to be trying out as an alternative app is Digital Performer. I have a lot of good friends who love this app, and say it's very stabile. 


    Anyway, very very disappointing about Apple.  I agree that a healthy Steve Jobs would not have let this happen to their professional app.  But keep in mind, it's a Mountain Lion issue that shows it's ugly effects not only in Logic, but I've also heard Reaper and Garage Band.  And boy am I tired of having to turn off and on my Ensemble when the software crashes under Mountain Lion.  The tech support at Apogee recently recommended as a fix that I install Snow Leopard! 


    Still can't wait for this update, and I hope it fixes all these problems.  My sinking suspicion is it won't though. 

  • Pancenter Level 6 Level 6

    Fredo Viola wrote:


    Pacenter, I totally agree!


    About other DAWs.. I read somewhere that ProTools isn't 64 bit, which is obviously a game changer. 


    The Protools boards seem concerned (obsessed) with ProTools catching up to 64-bit Nuendo which now uses a RAM cache to load most of the project into RAM, (if you have the memory) for incredible performance. Protools is losing some to the Nuendo camp. I guess the Nuendo audio engine is spectacuar, I'll soon get to see the new version as the University and local PBS studios are upgrading their systems soon. 


    If anything, Logic users should be concerned that the Logic engineering team had to convince the OSX developers there was a problem. That doesn't bode well. OSX is no longer a lean/mean operating system and it seems the eye candy just keeps getting piled on while performance drops. I don't know enough about programming but it seems Retina support has added considerable graphics overhead.

  • Mark Lord Level 1 Level 1

    I think you've both hit the nail on the head there - it's an OSX issue rather than a Logic issue per se; which is actually even more worrying - as the chance of them getting those billions of lines of code sorted seems even less likely. I remember when Windows XP came out (using Logic 5.xx - as someone else said, still probably the most stable version ever produced) and the first thing we all did was go into control panel and turn on all the pointless eye candy and new looks to get back the lost performance, and have a clearer interface. Lion and Mountain Lion seem so un-apple in so many ways to me. Their whole history has been built on practicle, clear GUIs that are a pleasure to use - and now we have icons that are grey, grey and grey, loads of stuff we are really need and want missing, and loads of crap we don't clutering the place up and draining overhead.


    Soon (no, make that now!) , we're going to need one of those clever programmers back from the windows days - who would work out loads of hacks and mods to turn off all the crap we didn't want and that got in the way of the the music software that was running... What a sad that of affairs. And to think, on the strength of 10.4 my one MacBook has become 2 Mac Pros, MacBook Pro, MacBook, iPAD and 3 iPhones... Sad... I might have to go a say 100 hail-mary's but has anyone used Windows recently??

  • Pancenter Level 6 Level 6

    I have a single quad-core processor Mac-Pro (Snow Leopard) & A Quad core PC I built running windows 7, they are lightpiped together 8 channels going either way depending on what machine I use as a master. I still have a rack of hardware synths and a MIDI patch bay. I'm mostly back to playing these days but I had a great run with PBS & NPR 1993-2003.. then funding dried up. I still do some things but nothing like before.. it's not as fun now anyway, plus I'm closing in on retirement age and it's too expensive to keep everything current.


    Windows 7 is wonderful for Audio/MIDI use, I can use less I/O buffer and still have more efficient CPU use. I fear Win-8 will be another do-all OS loaded down with a slew of background processes.


    My only experience with Lion and ML was upgrading on two different client's machines, they're both back with Snow Leopard.


    There's a program on Win that allows one to check the DPC Latency of their machine, using this program I tweaked Win-7 until it's extremely efficient with real-rime tasks.



    The 13 number is extremely low showing this machine has been optimized for audio video... it never burps.


    The operating system maintains DPCs scheduled by device drivers in a queue. There is one DPC queue per CPU available in the system. At certain points the kernel checks the DPC queue and if no interrupt is to be processed and no DPC is currently running the first DPC will be un-queued and executed. DPC queue processing happens before the dispatcher selects a thread and assigns the CPU to it. So, a Deferred Procedure Call has a higher priority than any thread in the system.


    Note that the Deferred Procedure Call concept exists in kernel mode only.

  • fluffy Level 1 Level 1

    From a different thread it sounds as if there's an upcoming OSX update which fixes things, although it's been delayed for whatever reason. Hopefully this long-standing problem will finally be over soon!

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 Level 1

    I've heard that the fix is coming in ML, but unfortunately also heard that some plugins will still cause lag.  We shall see... Trying to keep really positive, as Logic Pro is one of my favorite apps.

  • Darren Burgos Level 1 Level 1

    It's about time plug-in developers start accessing the power from the graphics card anyway. Especially if the synth/effect is graphically intensive. FabFilter updated theirs recently ...not a single lag. Pro-Q's analyzer for example is amazingly smooth and beautiful because of it.

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