Airport Extreme and Westell DSL modem

Hi all,

I am a MCSE Certified Professional in Windows 2000.

I got a new Apple Airport Extreme router to replace my Sister's Netgear router. I kept having to reset it all the time. In setting up the Airport I found out that the Westell modem actually has a router built in. I did not know that before.

My question is whether to set this up as a router or a base station. I am know that setting up the Airport as a base station is the recommended way to go. But, I am thinking that it is also not as secure. Also I don't have as much control over port forwarding and VPN access, etc. Also how does the DHCP IP addressing work going only through the Westell modem? Right now I have the Airport setup as a router with NAT unchecked. And an IP address set to something other than 192.168.1.1. Which is what the Westell is set for.

The only think I dislike about the new Aiport Extreme is the fact that I can not change the gateway ip address. I can't understand why Apple decided to do it this way. In the Router configuration as described above the network is working very well so far.

What are your thoughts.


Thanks,

John Gerard

Posted on Jul 31, 2011 1:50 PM

Reply
11 replies

Jul 31, 2011 2:20 PM in response to johng1

My question is whether to set this up as a router or a base station

Not sure what you mean by this as Apple calls a router a base station. If the Westell device is providing routing functions, then the AirPort Extreme should be set up in Bridge Mode to work correctly on the network.


If you have two devices, both handling DHCP on the network, there's bound to a conflict sooner or later.


Right now I have the Airport setup as a router with NAT unchecked

Are you tallking about the settings to "enable default host at" and "enable NAT port mapping"?


Unchecking these boxes does not turn off NAT if you have the AirPort Extreme configured as a router......with the setting for Connection Sharing set to "Share a public IP address".


Ref: AirPort Utility > Manual Setup > Internet icon > Connection Sharing


You turn off NAT (and DHCP) by configuring the Connection Sharing setting to "Off (Bridge Mode)".

Jul 31, 2011 2:50 PM in response to johng1

John, I have the exact equipment configuration you've referenced and the AirPort Extreme works reliably in BRIDGE mode — allowing the Westell (7500?) to provide PPoE/NAT/DHCP/DNS. Use the AirPort's WiFi security (WEP & Cloaking) — but you'll find all your other referenced routing & security functions within the Westell. (The Westell is only 802.11g-capable, so turn-off its radio.) This configuration also permits quick re-configuration, if you need to isolate the AirPort for troubleshooting LAN vs.WAN issues. That's gonna be way-useful when contacting your sister's ISP support for possibe troubleshooting assistance...


If your recently purchased AirPort Extreme (5G?) continues to require frequent resetting even with a new configuration (you didn't say why it's needed...) then I suggest you explore your swap-out options with Apple Support, or the the Apple store where it was purchased.


Hope this helps!

Jul 31, 2011 3:54 PM in response to Deltaman

Thought I'd take a 2nd swipe at this, to address some of John's other concerns (lke NAT'ing) along with questions others may have about the AirPort Utility user interface...


Coming from the WIN~PC world you may have noticed that Apple frequently prefers to employ pop-up configuration options, rather than the radio-buttons that are common on WIN PC-centric user interfaces (like Netgear routers). While pop-ups permit a less-cluttered interface, they also tend to obscure what choices are available, and can make setting up new equipment less-intuitive. Making Apple's use of pop-up menus even more-entertaining, you'll discover that some choices are context-sensitive, based on your previous selections. Beyond that, if you hold-down the Option key while clicking on pop-up/pull-down menus, you may also see an expanded range of choices. (Apple's interface guidelines were mostly established 25+ years ago, when users' interactions with their gear were far simpler; the AirPort Utility is a good example of what can go wrong when you become a slave to fashion.) Go-ahead and explore, though — without worrying about messing-up a working config, because your selections won't go live 'til you save 'em ('cept the status light) & you can always quit the AirPort Utility without saving changes. When you finally settle upon a working configuration you like, please export a copy of those settings via the File Menu so you can quickly restore them or switch between different personalities if needed. (What a breakthrough, if people could do that, eh?)


Enjoy!

Jul 31, 2011 4:06 PM in response to Deltaman

Ok, my next question is this...

Is there a manual for the Westell router? Or how do I log into the router to make changes? I need to make sure it is set to allow for a VPN passthrough connection. Some routers like the D-link do not automatically block ports like the Apple router does. Meaning that the Apple router will open a port if I request it from my side but block access from the outside. If I want to open a port I have to enter that into the router. The D-link ports are open by default which make it a pain to set up.


Thanks,

John

Jul 31, 2011 5:09 PM in response to johng1

John — you still haven't confirmed if we're talking about a Westell 7500 supplied by Verizon; their firmware leaves the router unlocked for local admin (Grrr!) after the 1st log-on (defaults = "admin" & "password"). Entering 192.168.1.1 into a browser should get you to the router's home page. If you encounter any additional/different login challenges, you'll need to check with whoever initially configured the router or reset it back to default settings. While you're in there, I suggest reserving a few IP addresses from the DHCP range, & use 'em for any network attached printers AND the AirPort Extreme (needed for time sync & if you'll be hosting anything via its USB port). I've never seen a manual for the 7500, since they're only supplied as OEM, afaik, & their firmware is carrier-specific. Verizon DSL has a 24-7 Mac-specific support queue, and they're often good at it. Since there are many thousands of these Westell 7500s deployed, you'll find lots of useful info via Google as well...


Good luck! (And, remember there's a "Like" button right under here ... )

Aug 1, 2011 9:59 AM in response to johng1

If you want to use the Versizon / Westell device "as is", then you must configure the AirPort Extreme as a "bridge"


AirPort Utility > Manual Setup > Internet icon > Connection Sharing = "Off (Bridge Mode)"


If you want to use the AirPort Extreme as the main router, then you must configure the Verizon / Westell device as a "bridge". Verizon's instructions for this are here:


http://www22.verizon.com/residentialhelp/highspeed/networking/setup/questionsthr ee/123756.htm

Aug 1, 2011 9:19 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Hi,

I do want to use the Westell as a bridge modem and the Airport as the Router. My setup page is a little different than the link you gave me. Mine has a firewall setting page where you can set the firewall to block almost all ports or basically unblock all ports. And there is a services tap screen where I can user define my own ports numbers. I can not find yet a way to put it into bridge mode. Would you know what screen/setting it would be? I currently am having a hard time figuring out how to basically perform an Exception to say it in not so many words using the settings in the Westell router? I think the Airport is so much easier to use and setup. IMHO


Thanks,

John Gerard

Aug 1, 2011 10:46 PM in response to johng1

John,


The 6100 is an older product (~2006?). Depending on how long your unit has been in service, there may have been firmware updates released by Verizon which will greatly affect the appearance and contents of pages presented by its embedded server. I advise you to update the 6100 firmware if needed, before changing the configuration. Verizon will often ship out a current DSL router to Mac subscribers on request, since Westell routers can't be flashed from a Mac. (You'd probably get a 7500). If you do choose to continue configuring the 6100, look for an "Advanced" tab where you can turn-off IP address distribution for a private LAN. That should effectively put the 6100 into bridge mode. However, Verizon employs dynamically-assigned DNS servers; without locally-stored DNS entries, I'm uncertain about how well the 6100 will continue to negotiate DNS lookups in bridge mode.


I can't offer any more-specific advice about configuring the 6100 since I've never used the product. However, based on what I do know about Verizon's suport for their hardware, I still believe that you'll be creating extra challenges down the road by chosing to configure any DSL router as a bridge, since Verizon won't provide troubleshooting support for that configuration.


Now that this discussion has substantially drifted away from anything relating to an Apple AirPort, I believe you'll get better configuring advice from Verizon DSL tech support (800 567-6789) and/or Verizon's DSL "High-Speed Internet" Help pages. So that other forum visitors may benefit from reading this discussion, please come back and post a descrption of the solution that worked for you.


Thanks and good luck!

Aug 22, 2011 10:57 AM in response to johng1

Hi all,


First I wanted to say thanks to all that tried to help me with this issue. The latest, I got a new modem from Verizon. I think it is the 6100-G version. I tried even with this modem to set it up in non-routing Bridge mode. But this still does not work, period. I call Verizon tech support and they helped me set up the new modem but only in Routed Bridge mode. They claim that this is the way I am supposed to use it even with a second wireless router attached. I tried and tried to setup the old 6100 router in non-routed Bridge mode following the instructions on Verizon's web site but this Just does not work So I just gave up and I am using the Verizon modem is Routed Bridge mode and the Apple airport setup on top of that configuration. This does work and works well. I have no problems at all even though this is not the recommended configuration. Everything from my sisters Dell laptop to her wireless HD LCD Samsung 32" TV/panasonic 5.1 Blu-ray surround sound system streaming Netflix work well. I think the Blu-ray player is the one connected to the Wirelass network. I even connected my new Apple TV2 and that works well, too. I was able to stream YouTube content from my Ipad1 to the Apple TV2 with no problems. I even had a computer company come out to check that I configured everything correctly and they said I had setup everything correctly. In trying to update the firmware in the old 6100 modem I hosed the modem where it just kept resetting itself. The problem I see is that in non-routed bridge mode Verizon does not supple the IP through to the Airport Router. Why it will not do this I don't know.

So that's where I left it.


Thanks,

John Gerard

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Airport Extreme and Westell DSL modem

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