DON'T UPDATE TO LION!

I couldn't be more unsatisfied with OS X Lion. First, problems with Safari (and sometimes I got to restart because it has some problem with Youtube), problems with Finder, my network it's completely deconfigured in comparation with my old Snow Leopard, and now the sound has gone with NO reasons. I hear the sound of the volume going up and down, but can't play Youtube and even iTunes! With all the respect, I thought Apple was different from Microsoft, but now that become this big, feels like thinks the same way.


DO NOT UPDATE TO LION! Don't waste your money with a software that have a lot of issues to get fixed.

Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Aug 1, 2011 10:00 AM

Reply
289 replies

Sep 2, 2011 5:59 AM in response to R C-R

R C-R wrote:


If that were true then you would not confuse caches & VM or make erroneous statements like "there is no space in RAM that is dedicated exclusively for the OS."

More to the point, you would understand quite well that different versions of the OS do in fact reserve different blocks of RAM for their exclusive use, why it is that a defective memory cell can affect one OS version but not another, & how this can be mistaken for a problem in the OS itself.


OK, I'll humor you again.


When any application, including the OS, needs RAM, a memory block of sufficient size is allocated and then freed once it's no longer needed. This memory block is, or should be, exclusive to the process that's using it until it is no longer needed and the memory block is freed, whereby it becomes available for another process.


If the application or the OS is buggy, however, data from a different process might get written into a memory block in use by another process, in which case you have a memory leak that will degrade performance or cause an outright crash.


I think it is extremely unlikely that you would have a stable Snow Leopard installation (or any other OS version) where there is "undetectable" hardware failure in the RAM or the hard drive. I do not believe it's possible to have a stable system in such a case, thus it seems to me to be a rather preposterous notion that such a defect wouldn't show up until the OS was upgraded to Lion.

Sep 2, 2011 4:48 PM in response to capaho

capaho wrote:

When any application, including the OS, needs RAM, a memory block of sufficient size is allocated and then freed once it's no longer needed. This memory block is, or should be, exclusive to the process that's using it until it is no longer needed and the memory block is freed, whereby it becomes available for another process.

There are several things wrong with this:


1. The OS is not an application. You can't quit it without shutting down the machine, nor can application processes run without the services the OS provides.

2. Many OS services are always needed (for example file services). Thus, there is never a time the wired memory dedicated to those services can be freed up except at shutdown time.

3. It is not true that every block of memory must be reserved for the exclusive use of a single process. In fact,

as explained in detail in the third paragraph of the Details of the Virtual Memory System section of the Apple developer document "Memory Performance Guidelines," memory pages can be shared among different processes or even among multiple blocks of code within a single process.


I think it is extremely unlikely that you would have a stable Snow Leopard installation (or any other OS version) where there is "undetectable" hardware failure in the RAM or the hard drive.

Think what you will but it is not all that uncommon that a defect in a memory module can't even be detected during a single pass of specialized RAM testing software like Memtest, Rember, or the Apple Hardware Test. In fact, some defects only show up when a DRAM chip attempts to hold specific data patterns, so it is quite possible that in one OS version that pattern will never appear in the defective part of the module but will in another.

Sep 2, 2011 6:04 PM in response to R C-R

Sigh. I guess I will just have to accept that you are never going to understand why your hypotheses are off the mark.


If nothing else, think about this. What are the odds that all of the Macs of all of the people reporting Lion problems in this forum have undetected RAM defects? From the standpoint of probability, that's rather far-fetched. If that were the case, which seems quite implausible, then Apple has a serious, ongoing quality control problem.


Lion is buggy. Other than operator error, it's the most likely reason for the many complaints about it in this forum.


Argue away.

Sep 2, 2011 6:45 PM in response to capaho

capaho wrote:

If nothing else, think about this. What are the odds that all of the Macs of all of the people reporting Lion problems in this forum have undetected RAM defects?

As has become all too common in this discussion, you oversimplify things far too much. Nobody claimed that all the reported problems are caused by RAM issues. As has been pointed out several times, that is just one of the several possible causes for issues with an upgrade, along with operator error, incompatible add-ons, file system issues, bugs in the OS itself, etc.


It is foolish to just pick any one of them & say all the problems must be caused by that. That isn't problem solving; it is just guessing. Effective troubleshooting requires testing to eliminate all but the actual cause. If you are not willing to do that, you will never know if your guess is right or totally off the mark.

Sep 2, 2011 6:52 PM in response to BDeCastro

I am now erasing my hard drive and reinstalling Snow Leopard. After weeks of frustration of a buggy machine that is not working as it is supposed to (NEW best core you can get - what is it i7?, 16GB RAM, 2TB hard drive) -and bought the machine this year.


I am absolutely convinced lion is a failure. very disappointing. i won't be trying again. several application issues. apple is not listening to their customers. sorry apple you failed.

Sep 3, 2011 8:41 AM in response to anyda

I am now erasing my hard drive and reinstalling Snow Leopard.


I did the same.


In Lion I found, erase functions on Disk Utility are no longer available. Can't disable versions, no bounce in Mail.


My first Mac OS Was 1.1 back in 1984. I always enjoy each upgrade.


The only time I skipped an upgrade was from OS 9 to 10.2. (I skipped 10.0 and 10.1)


Sad to report, I have now gone back to 10.6.8. (Snow Leopard)

In the Windows world, which I am sadly forced to use occasionally, I wisely skipped Vista, and went from Windows XP to Windows 7.


I was able to get over most of the technical problems with Lion. I felt that the interface was “dumbed down” and harder to use and missing some features (Bounce was removed from mail).


I may try later. 10.8?

Oct 17, 2011 5:20 AM in response to BDeCastro

ONLY upgrade to LION if you want your Mac to be a mess and not work properly.


Microsoft office no longer works with Lion

Time Machine does not work with lion

iMac is super super slow.

Many programs take 5-10 minutes to open or load

Many programs stop responding or don't work at all

The spinning wheel on the screen will be your new best friend as you will be seeing a lot of it.

Some days iTunes won't load or work

Error messages pop up like internet Ads.

My favorite new thing with LION is that my iMac has a mind of it's own and does what it wants and nothing I want it to do.

Oct 17, 2011 8:10 AM in response to Healthiest

I suspect you've got an old copy of MS Office.


Like millions of others I've upgraded to Lion and don't have any problems, at all, including running a copy of this decades' Microsoft Office.


Your problems sound like they're specific to your setup. With that many problems I would be backing up my data, formating the hard drive and doing a fresh install of Lion and current applications.

Oct 17, 2011 8:18 AM in response to BDeCastro

Greetings,


It still works mighty fine here, and on a few hundred machines, at one of my support sites, plus all of my own. The Update 10.7.2 made a few things easier to configure and use, as well, but it wasn't necessary to have a working system - one just needed to make some adjustments, here and there.


As I mentioned earlier, I never saw the supposed issues listed here, and I still don't see them.


Did you ever try a completely fresh install, wiping out all the old stuff? It's easy peasy, takes little time, and you get rid of the junk that is most likely causing your problems - until you put it back on, if you do...... 🙂


Cheers,

M.

******

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