Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Versions; Auto Save; Time Machine

Hi Gang:


I am running Lion.


Long time no .... The discssion area has changed a great deal. But, OK, I have never been a fan of Time Machine, so:


1. Can I use Versions if I do not use Time Machine? It looks like not.


2. If I turn Time Machine on so I can use Versions (assuming necessity), then do I ever have to do a Time Machine backup to another

drive (or partition I suppose) in order for Versions to work.


3. Where are Time Machine backups stored on the local drive? Presumably one would want to delete such backups as they take up

more and more space. Right? One reason, perhaps, that I've never likely Time Machine much is that I don't find much in the way of a

system-settings pane for Time Machine.


3. Can I turn Auto Save off? Explanation: If auto save saves before I am ready and I am not using versions, then I am in trouble. Right?

Wrong?

15, Mac OS X (10.7), Boot Camp/Win7 64-Bit; PowerBook 540c; PP iBook G4; iPhone 4G

Posted on Aug 4, 2011 12:05 PM

Reply
Question marked as Best reply
User profile for user: baltwo
baltwo
User level: Level 9
62,362 points

Posted on Aug 4, 2011 12:31 PM

1. Yes. Versions uses the TM engine, but TM set to OFF doesn't affect versions.


2. Not required. See above.


3. Versions are stored in the root-level, hidden .DocumentRevisions-V100 directory.


4. You can't turn autosave or versions off, which is a bummer.


HTH

View in context
16 replies
User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Aug 4, 2011 12:41 PM in response to baltwo

Thanks much baltwo. Nice to hear from you.


I tried what seems consistent with what you say before posting. The problem is that I have not yet seen evidence that versions is working. My understanding is that a versions menu (i.e., a triagle) is supposed to appear when I hoover my cursor over the document's title bar. But, I have not been able to generate the triangle. Any thoughts? Does versions work on all apps?

Reply
User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Aug 4, 2011 5:30 PM in response to Shawn Grinter 2

I have confirmed that Versions does not work on Word and Excel--apps that don't support it. Shame on Apple--advertising Lion as though Versions works on all documents. Now, given that Auto Save can't be disabled. (shame on Apple again), I have another question.


Does Auto Save also work only with apps that support it? I am hoping that Auto Save does not work on, for example, Word and Excel (Office 2011), just as Versions does not work on these programs. Otherwise, we can have problems if Auto Save saves prematurely--from our perspectives.


If Auto Save works on, for example, Word and Excel (Office 2011), then my, IMO, best way out is to be sure that I have a copy of my last worked on versions of all documents that are of significance to me--so that I can't get Auto Saved to a frustrating level. And, in this regard, I'll need to save to the copy of whatever I am working on pretty frequently and then save back to keep woking further avoiding Auto Save frustration.

Reply
User profile for user: baltwo
baltwo
User level: Level 9
62,362 points

Aug 4, 2011 5:54 PM in response to donv_the_ghost

Nice to have you back.


Yes. Autosave has to be implemented by the app's developer. AFAIK, only TextEdit, Preview, Pages, and Numbers have that enabled. The latter two if you've updated and they're '09 or later.


IMO, any app that has autosave enabled should, despite Apple's proclivity, have an OFF or disabled button. Not everyone needs the OS to do their thinking for them.

Reply
User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Aug 4, 2011 6:06 PM in response to baltwo

Thanks for the welcome back and the rest baltwo. I see. So, I am safe from Auto Save on Word and Excel. That's good. I totally agree that any Auto Save app should have a turn off Auto Save setting.


I made a comment earlier today that will offend some. Basically, I said that Apple is out Bill Gatesing Bill Gates lately. It's really getting kind of weird--like the new OS install procdure (as well as the can't turn off Auto Save "feature"). If you don't sort of know what you are doing, then you'll end up doing an upgrade install when its not in your best interest.

Reply
User profile for user: etresoft
etresoft
User level: Level 8
46,318 points

Aug 4, 2011 6:26 PM in response to donv_the_ghost

The local Time Machine backups are stored at /.MobileBackups. This feature is only enabled by default if you have a notebook machine. The Versions interface will show versions, local backups (I'm pretty sure), and remote (Time Machine) backups. The Time Machine interface will show local and remote backups. So, the Versions interface is the "richest" of all and can see all versions stored anywhere.


I think you are reading too much into AutoSave. The primary goal behind it (from the developer documentation) is an efficient way to keep you from losing changes. I'm not sure if an Autosave is actually a "version". I think you have to manually "save" to get a "version". All of your work is recorded in the current document but all of the versions in the Version Browser are the save instances that you performed. You won't have any interim copies.


I am testing my hypothese right now but it will take at least 10 minutes 🙂

Reply
User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Aug 4, 2011 7:46 PM in response to etresoft

Thanks for your help. You say : "I think you are reading too much into AutoSave. The primary goal behind it (from the developer documentation) is an efficient way to keep you from losing changes. I'm not sure if an Autosave is actually a 'version'. I think you have to manually 'save' to get a 'version'."


I was concerned about Auto Save saving before I want to save. I have various occasions where I want to take quite a few steps and then back out by closing the app without saving if I end up not liking the steps I have taken. Undo won't necessarily save me under these conditions. And, closing the app without saving won't save me if Auto Save has saved before I am ready. For me to be comfortable with Auto Save, I'd have to be sure the document version existing right before Auto Save does its business has been saved too.


It appears that Auto Save does not work unless an app has been designed for Auto Save to work. So, I am safe from Bill Gateism at this point when it comes to Auto Save, I think. It appears that Versions and Auto Save either work hand in hand or neither works. But, I am not totally sure on all I am saying. Live and learn I guess. I'd like to have Versions and no Auto Save--or at least be able to turn Auto Save off. What can Apple be thinking with Auto Save?

Reply
User profile for user: etresoft
etresoft
User level: Level 8
46,318 points

Aug 5, 2011 6:27 AM in response to donv_the_ghost

Sorry, but I don't get the "Bill Gates" references at all. Autosave is not a new concept. Apple is just making it easier to use by making it part of the application programming libraries.


Autosave is nothing more than that - auto-save. In the old days, the idea would be to save your document in case the computer or application crashes so you don't lose anything. That isn't the danger today. The problem today is saving a document on device A and then needing to use it on device B or C.


Autosave is not the same as Versions, but they do go together. Before, if you find that you don't like the current state of your document, you would quit the application without saving. Now, you would just revert back to the previous version. There is even a handy-dandy "Revert Document..." command that does just that.


Yes, it is a change and requires different behaviour than you are used to. But you haven't lost any functionality and have gained quite a bit. You don't have to quit applications anymore. You don't have to save until you are happy with the version you have. If you aren't happy with your work, blow it away. If you aren't happy with that previous version, go back until you find one you are happy with.


Apple is thinking that they have redefined how people use computers - again. And they are right.

Reply
User profile for user: donv_the_ghost
donv_the_ghost Author
User level: Level 9
50,900 points

Aug 5, 2011 7:56 AM in response to etresoft

I can't agree with much of what you say. Also, you have misunderstood some of what I say. You are overly condensending. Do you really think I don't understand about Auto Save and changing behavior when new things come around, etc. etc. Please aim your pulpit in some other direction. I understand how Versions and Auto Save work, or at least how they should work. I won't be using them because virtually no software I have and use support them. And, I hope they never do--at least until an option to turn Auto Save off is provided. Versions would be OK, but I virtually never have lost anything of any significance because I forgot to save. And, AFAIK, there is no "Revert Document ..." command on Work or Excel which is my focus. I don't care if one exists on software I would never use.

Reply
User profile for user: etresoft
etresoft
User level: Level 8
46,318 points

Aug 5, 2011 8:28 AM in response to donv_the_ghost

donv (The Ghost) wrote:


You are overly condensending.


I don't understand. Are my explanations too "condensed" or and I too "condescending"? In the future, I will try to be more verbose and aim for "that sweet spot" of just the right amount of condescension.


Do you really think I don't understand about Auto Save and changing behavior when new things come around, etc. etc.

Yes


Please aim your pulpit in some other direction.

Don't ask questions if you can't handle the answers.


I understand how Versions and Auto Save work, or at least how they should work. I won't be using them because virtually no software I have and use support them. And, I hope they never do--at least until an option to turn Auto Save off is provided. Versions would be OK, but I virtually never have lost anything of any significance because I forgot to save. And, AFAIK, there is no "Revert Document ..." command on Work or Excel which is my focus. I don't care if one exists on software I would never use.

Autosave has been a feature of Office for many years. Microsoft is currently updating Office to use the new Autosave, Versions, and Fullscreen features in Lion. "Revert Document..." is only present on applications that support Lion's new features, such as Pages and TextEdit. I expect it will show up in Office "in months".


Good luck with your fight against the future.

Reply

Versions; Auto Save; Time Machine

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple ID.
Learn more Sign up