1 OSX Lion Mission Control vs Snow Leopard Expose can't we combine the two (by leaving older Expose options inside) and get Apple back to leaping forward again?

Michael Hodgins wrote:

Are other people using Mice?

Yes, of course. For physical reasons I won't go into, I cannot use a trackpad.

The problem I have with this Mission Control thing (what a stupid, childish name!) is that when I'm working I don't think in terms of applications. I think in terms of what I'm doing.

In Snow Leopard I just hit the F1 key and hey presto, there are all my open windows, all visible at the same size. I can see the one I want so I just move the mouse over to it.

Is that file open in Photoshop? Preview? Graphic Converter? I don't want to have to think about that. I'm looking for an image, not an application.

With the new Mission Control, Apple forces me to first identify the application I think the file is open in. I might not even remember.

Then once I've remembered that, I have to click on a bunch of stacked windows so small I can hardly see them, and find the one of the file I need.

That is not progress with the MacOS. That is going backwards.

Many years ago I was a DOS person (before Windows that was all there was, if you used a PC).

I moved over to Apple because it was so much easier and intuitive to use.

Now with Lion I fear it has begun to lose that advantage.

iPotential wrote:

LJJX wrote:

i think i may go back to snow leopard just so i can use the origional expose/spaces.. what the **** are apple doing?

I went back to Snow Leopard on all but one of my Macs. It's much better than Lion and my preferred option for doing serious work.

Me too. I'll keep on watching Lion in the hope that over the coming months all the horrible things about it will be fixed.

Michael Hodgins wrote:

My opinion has changed as I've used Mission control more, and since the updates that Apple have made after I first joined this discussion. I have a suspicion that this might be becuase I'm using a Magic Track pad on my iMac and the normal pad on my MacBook Pro; the various four finger gestures make navigating Mission Control easy. For example, four fingers down shows me all the windows in the current app - which is what I think Croysk is struggling with.

Are other people using Mice?

No, I want to see all the windows in the current desktop, and see all of them (i.e. the entire contents). I don't want them grouped by app and stacked. Then I can easily pick and choose which windows to move to which desktops. The current design seems to be focussed on one app per desktop, rather than one task, which may need multiple apps, per desktop. Either way of working fit expose/spaces well.

For example, consider the following:

Using one desktop per theme/context for browsing with Safari. Restarting Safari and restoring the previous session results in the windows being placed on the current desktop. Now I need to sort them. This may sound trivial but is a key part of how I work. I'll have a web browser with research/reference for one "desktop" for coding, another for general use, another for a VM with more coding, another for news, etc.. I may work on several builds or projects simultaneously and need a separate editor, browser, etc...

All of this worked great with expose/spaces, but is now a pain. I'll need to change the way I work. I expect I'll get used to it, but just now it feels like I'm blinkered.

This is the first upgrade (since 10.2) that I've regretted. My impression so far is that too much has "gone back to the mac". Apple had done a great jobs of keeping a core OS common, but higher-level app and UI context separate on iOS devices and OS X. Now, it seems there's too much influence from touch screen devices back to the desktop (e.g. LaunchPad). I'm not bothered by LaunchPad, I can ignore it (like I did "Dashboard"). The thing that grates about Mission Control is that it could be fixed with a small amount of work, and that it would have been easy to keep expose/spaces available. When spaces came along, we didn't have to dump expose - on the contrary, they complemented each other very well.

In addition I've had Safari crash when I change my display profile (i.e. System Preferences->Display->Color). Personally, I have a few useful old (no longer updated/supported) apps that I'd find Rosetta useful for, but it's not a deal breaker.

There's lots of silly new eye candy - again influenced by iOS where it makes sense. This doesn't bother me much, as I'm running on a decently spec'd iMac. I've not upgraded my MacBook Air or early 2007 MBP. These might have a harder time.

Very unimpressed so far.

Tom in London wrote:

Michael Hodgins wrote:

Are other people using Mice?

Yes, of course. For physical reasons I won't go into, I cannot use a trackpad.

The problem I have with this Mission Control thing (what a stupid, childish name!) is that when I'm working I don't think in terms of applications. I think in terms of what I'm doing.

In Snow Leopard I just hit the F1 key and hey presto, there are all my open windows, all visible at the same size. I can see the one I want so I just move the mouse over to it.

Is that file open in Photoshop? Preview? Graphic Converter? I don't want to have to think about that. I'm looking for an image, not an application.

With the new Mission Control, Apple forces me to first identify the application I think the file is open in. I might not even remember.

Then once I've remembered that, I have to click on a bunch of stacked windows so small I can hardly see them, and find the one of the file I need.

That is not progress with the MacOS. That is going backwards.

Many years ago I was a DOS person (before Windows that was all there was, if you used a PC).

I moved over to Apple because it was so much easier and intuitive to use.

Now with Lion I fear it has begun to lose that advantage.

Exactly!

It's as if an iOS developer who had never used expose and spaces on a larger display in ay serious way had decided to re-write everything. MC might (might) fit iOS better, but it certainly doesn't fit a desktop OS.

Here's a question: Let's say Lion came with expose and spaces as per Snow Leopard, and that Mission Control was an app on the app store. Would you buy it?

Actually it's worse than that - if there's an app than can give me back expose and spaces, I'd happily pay for it.

I'm a recent convert to Macs - I got my MacBook Pro in May and my iMac a couple of months ago. Before that it was Windows and Linux. I guess this means I don't have any expectations from previous versions of OSX - I only used Snow Leopard for a few months before Lion came out - and I now find coding on Mac a doddle. I'm a web developer, so I have lots of browsers and code editors open, and can move between them easily with the track pad and cmd+tab combo.

This lack of expectation also might explain why I don't know if most Mac users have mice or track pads. Personally, I have both plugged in but I rarely need to touch the mouse.

You wouldn't normally use a trackpad with a desktop computer. You'd use a mouse. And there are millions of people who use desktop computers.

But Apple seems to have decided that everybody's using an iPhone or an iPad.

I have no use for either.

Good, Jamspandex.

I have the same feeling you have. I'd say that Apple didn't understand the difference between a Tablet and a Computer. Tablets and Computers have different hardware resources (touchscreen vs. mouse/touchpad/keyboard) and different finalities (quick tasks and entertainment vs. intensive work and productivity).

It's a great mistake to think that tecnnical designers will change a huge 27" monitor and a mouse by a 10" touchscreen. Or that people would leave their large and precise desktop keyboards for a small touchscreen hang by a softcase.

I love my iPad, but I wouldn't like my computer to look like it! It's not apropriate. It sounds me like someone telling jokes all the time during a business meeting.

Yes, the restriction to a 1D-layout together with the non-deterministic assignment of "Spaces" is an absolute show-stopper, they really need ot fix this to prevent masses of power-users, software developers, and geeks, all people that act as multipliers, to go back to Linux...

Cohi wrote:

Yes, the restriction to a 1D-layout together with the non-deterministic assignment of "Spaces" is an absolute show-stopper, they really need ot fix this to prevent masses of power-users, software developers, and geeks, all people that act as multipliers, to go back to Linux...

You can turn the "non-determinism" off in System Preferences.

I use a programming/graphics application known as Igor Pro. In normal use you can have numerous small windows open. Some code windows with functions in them, some data tables, some graphs, and the command line and history window. In Leopard and Snow Leopard, pressing the F3 key spread out all the windows so you could see what was where, and select the particular window you were after. Simple elegant and effective.

In Lion, the "Mission Control" F3 key clumps all the windows together so it's very hard to find anything. In other words, the new system is *completely* dysfunctional for working with IgorPro. Complicated, messy and ineffective.

My advice: if you use Igor Pro or any similar app, **DO NOT UPGRADE** to Lion.

OK, my bad. I have found out how to accomplish what I used to do with the F3 key. The default for that command for multiple windows of a single application is now control-down arrow. The configuration is in the Mission Control prefs, the Application Windows setting. So all is right with the world again (or nearly). I rescind my "don't upgrade" statement :-)

Do you mean the "Automatically rearrange spaces..." switch? That's not enough, for example after a reboot the full-screen apps will be in a different order than before!

Totally agree- mission control is a DISASTER. Snow leopards expose was 1000 times more powerful, and I need it back. What drugs are apple on?? Crazy, stupid, madness.

ALL WINDOWS, is the only intuitive , simple, efficient way, of switching between multiple winwows in multiple apps, for real people, doing real work, and apple have let some idiot coder loose on this core function, and theyve ruined productivity and useability.

They dont seem to understand people just want to get on and be productive anymore, rather, they are obsesssed with forcing fantastically flawed new operating systems on users, and they think they are on the intersection of art and science..!

Mission control is the intersection of a pig's ear, and a dog's dinner, to put it politely. Steve Jobs probably died after having a go on it. It literally saps the lifeblood out of you, trying to work with Mission control and no expose.

BRING IT BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've heard that Exposé will work in Lion if you copy it over from Snow Leopard. Is that true?

Not true