GMT +1 is not Greenwich Mean Time

In the user preferences (for the Support Communities) there's a pop-up menu to set your time zone. Right in the middle of that pop-up list is "(GMT+0:00) Monrovia, Casablanca", the next item down is "(GMT+1:00) Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London".


I think it should be obvious to anyone that "GMT" is an abbreviation of "Greenwich Mean Time", and I think it logically follows from this fact that "GMT+1:00" cannot possibly be "Greenwich Mean Time" (ie (Greenwich Mean Time + 1:00) ≠ "Greenwich Mean Time". Greenwich Mean Time can only ever be "GMT+0:00" ).


The pop-up list item should read: "(GMT+1:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London", "(GMT+1:00) BST: Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London" or "(GMT+1:00) British Summer Time: Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London"

Posted on Aug 11, 2011 4:16 PM

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12 replies

Aug 12, 2011 12:51 PM in response to Csound1

No, when "Summer Time" is in effect, that's "(GMT +1:00) British Summer Time", or anything else you want to call it.


What it definitely is not is "Greenwich Mean Time". Greenwich Mean Time can only have an offset of "0", it cannot be "GMT +1", whether it is Spring, Summer, Autumn or Winter.


So, to recap: "(GMT+1:00) Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London" is complete nonsense.

Aug 12, 2011 4:19 PM in response to R C-R

Labels schmabels 🙂


You have a point but I have no issue with describing Londons Summer Time as GMT + 1, or indeed the Winter Time as GMT


Anyhow, it's UTC now


And here is why UTC is used instead of GMT (oh the search for split second accuracy, and credits to WikiP for not having to type this out)


"Historically the term GMT has been used with two different conventions for numbering hours. The long-standing astronomical convention dating from the work of Ptolemy, was to refer to noon as zero hours (see Julian day). This contrasted with the civil convention of referring to midnight as zero hours dating from the Romans. The latter convention was adopted on and after 1 January 1925 for astronomical purposes as well, resulting in a discontinuity of 12 hours, or half a day earlier. The instant that was designated December 31.5 GMT in 1924 almanacs became January 1.0 GMT in 1925 almanacs. The term Greenwich Mean Astronomical Time (GMAT) was introduced to unambiguously refer to the previous noon-based astronomical convention for GMT.[6] The more specific terms UT and UTC do not share this ambiguity, always referring to midnight as zero hours."


December 31 and a half?


Must have been a fun night 🙂

Aug 12, 2011 4:30 PM in response to R C-R

I don't. I think Csound is right.


The time here is currently GMT+1 = BST.


BST ends October 29, after which I will reset my time zone to GMT.


GMT is a fixed constant and all agreed time zones are a +/- variant thereof, which will vary according to when/if certain countries have artificial 'Summer Time'.


Only in Britain is this called 'British Summer Time' so your suggestion of relabelling would not work.

Aug 12, 2011 4:36 PM in response to Klaus1

Klaus1 wrote:


I don't. I think Csound is right.


The time here is currently GMT+1 = BST.


BST ends October 29, after which I will reset my time zone to GMT.


GMT is a fixed constant and all agreed time zones are a +/- variant thereof, which will vary according to when/if certain countries have artificial 'Summer Time'.


Only in Britain is this called 'British Summer Time' so your suggestion of relabelling would not work.


Hey Klaus


Britain is the 0 point in the world (remember the Philadelphia Conference and be grateful that it's not PMT + 10, or 11, wherever it is that Philly is)


It's all labelling, do you think the English Channel is known that way in Paris?

Aug 12, 2011 5:00 PM in response to Klaus1

The time here is currently GMT+1 = BST.

Of course. But it isn't both "GMT+1:00" and "Greenwich Mean Time." That's Clive point.


Only in Britain is this called 'British Summer Time' so your suggestion of relabelling would not work.

Well, the whole thing is labeled in English, so I don't think relabeling it with a British convention would be that problematic, but if it is then just removing the "Greenwich Mean Time" from the line should be fine.

Aug 12, 2011 5:12 PM in response to Klaus1

No, Csound is 100% wrong. Only GMT+0 can be Greenwich Mean Time, GMT+1 cannot be Greenwich Mean Time, ever.


if Csound is right, then "0 + 1 = 0", which is obviously incorrect.


To expand the logic: what you're saying is correct is that "Greenwich Mean Time +1:00 = Greenwich Mean Time" - totally nonsensical.


It's as nonsensical as writing "GMT+8:00 = Greenwich Mean Time".


The +/- hours are the offset from GMT, they can never be GMT, even if they occupy the same longitude as GMT.


I don't care if it is labelled "British Summer Time", "Western European Summer Time", "Zero Degrees Longitude Put Your Clocks Forward in Some States Time", or more or less anything else... but writing "GMT+1:00 = Greenwich Mean Time" is definitely wrong.

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GMT +1 is not Greenwich Mean Time

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