HawkeyeEG

Q: Strange Problem With CAT6/Airport Extreme/Cable Modem

Good evening,

 

  We just recently finished building a guest house in our garage, complete with everything necessary (including TV), except for internet access. To remedy that program, I tried to use 2 x Airport Expresses to repeat the network created by my Airport Extreme. It worked relatively well for my MacBook Pro (wireless N), but was not reaching my desktop PC (wireless G).

 

I bought a 100 foot CAT6 cable and ran it through my wall, out the roof, and into the garage. My plan is to create a network within the garage, running from my Airport Extreme, through my CAT6 cable, to an Airport Express.

 

This is the interesting part that has me stumped; when I plug my CAT6 cable into my Airport Extreme, it ceases to work for the rest of the household. My MacBook Pro, our iMac, and our Apple TV all lose internet access, still seeing our network broadcasting but failing to connect to the internet, citing the error message that "Airport is on but is not connected to the internet." (paraphrasing) Connecting the cable directly to the Cable Router is met with the same effect.

 

Rebooting my cable router and my Airport Extreme did nothing to fix the problem; however, as soon as I unplug the CAT6 cable from the Extreme the internet works again for the entire household.

 

I consider myself tech-savvy, but find myself completely stumped. Please help!

 

Regards,

 

HawkeyeEG

Posted on Aug 25, 2011 7:23 PM

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Q: Strange Problem With CAT6/Airport Extreme/Cable Modem

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  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 25, 2011 9:00 PM in response to HawkeyeEG
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 25, 2011 9:00 PM in response to HawkeyeEG

    What comes to mind is that Gigabit Ethernet requires all four pairs of wire in a CAT-5/5e/6 Ethernet cable. Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps) only uses two of those pairs and in some home installations, the "spare" pairs are used for phone service provisioning which mean that are powered. If you have a situation where you attempt to run both data & phone service over the same Ethernet cable, AND connect up Gigabit Ethernet equipment you will potentially get some bad results as the wire pairs that are powered can damage the Ethernet ports not expecting it.

     

    Now this may not be the case in your situation, but it is something you want to be sure of. The key is, if you want to run full Gigabit Ethernet runs between Gigabit-enabled networking equipment, do NOT use the same Ethernet cable to provide phone service. Run the phone service on a separate cable.

  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 17, 2016 8:30 AM in response to HawkeyeEG
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 17, 2016 8:30 AM in response to HawkeyeEG

    Did you ever figure out the issue? I'm having the same problem. Had a network built on CAT5e then extended it with CAT6. The second any CAT6 is connected, all internet dies.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 17, 2016 8:49 AM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 17, 2016 8:49 AM in response to Tyler Botha

    Per chance, did you verify that both of your CAT5 & CAT6 cable runs are dedicated for data only? That is, all four wiring pairs are terminated at the connectors and not being co-used for land-line applications?

     

    Is the total Ethernet cable length (CAT5 + CAT6) between the devices less than 100 m? ... and did you run continuity tests on each of the cable runs as well?

  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 17, 2016 8:54 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 17, 2016 8:54 AM in response to Tesserax

    Yes. Data only. Phones are analogue.

     

    Old network:

    ADSL Router (DHCP Server)  - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge) - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge)

     

    New Network:

    ADSL Router (DHCP Server)  - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge) - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge) - 6 - Network Jack - 5e - Airport Express.

     

    The second I connect the CAT6 cable, either to the second airport extreme or to the ADSL router, all wifi connection and internet dies.

  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 17, 2016 8:56 AM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 17, 2016 8:56 AM in response to Tyler Botha

    I meant our phone is not part of this network at all.

     

    I got a company to come in and do the extension...thinking I need to call them back...just wanted to try fix myself is possible or see if they missed something.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 17, 2016 9:12 AM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 17, 2016 9:12 AM in response to Tyler Botha

    Ok, I understand that your phone system is separate.

    New Network:

    ADSL Router (DHCP Server)  - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge) - 5e - Airport Extreme (Bridge) - 6 - Network Jack - 5e - Airport Express.

    Just to be sure I understand the current wiring configuration, are all of these devices connected in a series fashion starting from a single Ethernet port on the router, as depicted in the above statement? ... or do you have something like the following instead:

    • ADSL router > Ethernet port #1 > CAT5e > AirPort Extreme #1
    • ADSL router > Ethernet port #2 > CAT5e > AirPort Extreme #2
    • ADSL router > Ethernet port #3 > CAT6 > wall jack > AirPort Express
  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 17, 2016 10:50 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 17, 2016 10:50 AM in response to Tesserax

    image.jpegFForgive the casual diagram but this probably better explains it.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 17, 2016 11:37 AM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 17, 2016 11:37 AM in response to Tyler Botha

    No, you photo diagram works for me.

     

    So I see that you have CAT6 deployed at two locations:

    • Between the ADSL router and the wall jack.
    • From the 2nd Extreme to the another wall jack.

     

    ... and the issue only happens when either CAT6 line is connected.

     

    Since it appears that both of these lines are "faulty," I would strongly suggest that you contact the installer to make this right.

     

    Before you do, for a simple test, disconnect the CAT 6 line from the ADSL router, as well as, the one at the second Extreme. Bring both Express base stations back to the ADSL router. Plug each one in with a CAT5 cable or one at a time, it doesn't really matter. Do you still loose Internet & Wi-Fi connectivity?

     

    If you don't, and have a spare CAT6 cable, substitute that for the simple test. Can you still gain access? If so, then both of the CAT6 runs should be suspected as the cause of the problem.

  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 17, 2016 2:34 PM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 17, 2016 2:34 PM in response to Tesserax

    So several tests have been done.

     

    I didn't have a spare CAT6 (as they are all glued to walls and run through ceilings) but unplugged all of them from the router and Airport Extremes and reconnected each till I had isolated the culprits.

     

    3 of the 5 kill the internet. Two work fine. To double check, I took the CAT5e patch cables and tested from the CAT6 jacks to an Airport Express and also from the Airport Extreme direct to the same Express. All CAT5e worked when directly connected to the Extreme.

     

    So it seems there is a problem either with the crimping of the 3 CAT6 cables or the cables themselves. Seeing as all the CAT6 came out of the same cable, I'd wager it's the crimping.

     

    Thanks for your help. I've emailed the company to come back and sort it out. Good thing they haven't been paid yet.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 17, 2016 2:41 PM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 17, 2016 2:41 PM in response to Tyler Botha

    Great troubleshooting! Thanks for hanging in there for me. Sorry, that the installed cable was the issue and hopefully, they will get it right for you.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 17, 2016 3:01 PM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 10 (105,003 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 17, 2016 3:01 PM in response to Tyler Botha

    So it seems there is a problem either with the crimping of the 3 CAT6 cables or the cables themselves. Seeing as all the CAT6 came out of the same cable, I'd wager it's the crimping.

    95% of the time, it's a bad cable or connector. The wire guy(s) will probably say that they "tested" the cables, and that might be true.....but, a good cable tester is an expensive item....$200 and up.

     

    In the past, I've tried several $20-50 "cable testers" and they all showed connections as good, even though I knew that they were not (I mis-wired things on purpose, because I suspected that the "cable tester" was a waste of money).

     

    So, might be a good idea to actually connect things up if you can when the cable guys are still there and they are saying that they are all done.

     

    Good luck!

  • by Tyler Botha,

    Tyler Botha Tyler Botha Aug 23, 2016 1:05 PM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 23, 2016 1:05 PM in response to Tesserax

    Hey!

     

    So the problem wasn't the cables (although the company missed their appointment to come today to help...fortuitous in a way I guess).

     

    So the issue was that the AirPort Express units were still connecting to the WiFi network as previously configured and the second they were hardwired in as well, a loop in the network was created and killed everything. A quick reset and reconfigure of each to use the ethernet only and simply extend the Wifi network, and not connect with it too, and VOILA!

     

    Thanks for all the help anyway. Happy it is all now working.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Aug 23, 2016 1:10 PM in response to Tyler Botha
    Level 9 (54,035 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 23, 2016 1:10 PM in response to Tyler Botha

    You're very welcome! Whew! I'm glad you got it worked out ...