Image edited in Photoshop appears as blank white version in Aperture

Question

Level 2

363 points

Image edited in Photoshop appears as blank white version in Aperture

I am editing images in Photoshop this way: export RAW file to ACR for adjustment. Go back to Aperture and open the same file in external editor (PSD format). Then I select the ACR version, paste it into the Aperture export, flatten, reduce to 8-bit, and save.

This works fine as long as I choose 8-bit in ACR. But when I choose 16-bit and go through exactly the same process, I end up with a blank white image in Aperture. The edited photo won't display at all.

Any ideas why this is happening?

Thanks,
Chris

G5 2.0 dual-core, Mac OS X (10.4.3), 17" Apple LCD, iSight, Bluetooth Keyboard & Logitech Cordless Laser Mouse

Posted on Jan 22, 2006 10:26 AM

Reply

Answer 1

kgelner

Level 4

1,205 points

Jan 22, 2006 1:18 PM in response to Badlydrawnboy

I am editing images in Photoshop this way: export RAW
file to ACR for adjustment. Go back to Aperture and
open the same file in external editor (PSD format).
Then I select the ACR version, paste it into the
Aperture export, flatten, reduce to 8-bit, and save.

This works fine as long as I choose 8-bit in ACR.
But when I choose 16-bit and go through exactly the
same process, I end up with a blank white image in
Aperture. The edited photo won't display at all.

Any ideas why this is happening?

One thing - are you choosing TIFF as the file format for Aperture to use in external editing? If so, Aperture uses 8-bit TIFF files for editing and may not be expecting a 16-bit one back.

If that is the case to fix, simply use "PSD" as the file format for external ediitng which is 16-bit and the file should come back just fine.

Another possibility, less likley, is that you are using LAB or some other editing space instead of RGB. Aperture does not like that. But that does not seem like the problem as you wouldn't be switching editing modes just by reducing bit depth.

Reply

Answer 2

Badlydrawnboy Author

Level 2

363 points

Jan 22, 2006 6:22 PM in response to kgelner

I have PSD selected in the export preference. And I'm using the standard Adobe RGB color space.

If I do not make any adjustments to the ACR version once it's opened in Photoshop (levels, curves, etc.), and I just paste it into the exported PSD from Aperture and then flatten, reduce to 8-bit and save... it goes back to Aperture just fine. And of course I can choose "open in external editor" again and go back to Photoshop to make adjustments, but then I'm working with an 8-bit file.

However, if I add adjustment layers and such in Photoshop while it's still 16-bit and THEN paste it into the exported Aperture PSD and flatten, reduce to 8-bit etc., it appears back in Aperture as a plain white image.

I was hoping to be able to make adjustments to the 16-bit file in Photoshop and then flatten it and bring it back to Aperture. Is that possible?

Reply

Answer 3

kgelner

Level 4

1,205 points

Jan 22, 2006 9:33 PM in response to Badlydrawnboy

If I do not make any adjustments to the ACR version
once it's opened in Photoshop (levels, curves, etc.),
and I just paste it into the exported PSD from
Aperture and then flatten, reduce to 8-bit and
save... it goes back to Aperture just fine. And of
course I can choose "open in external editor" again
and go back to Photoshop to make adjustments, but
then I'm working with an 8-bit file.

However, if I add adjustment layers and such in
Photoshop while it's still 16-bit and THEN paste it
into the exported Aperture PSD and flatten, reduce to
8-bit etc., it appears back in Aperture as a plain
white image.

Wierd, the only other thing I can think of is that you do not have the "Combatibility Mode" turned on in Photoshop files that saves a flattened version inside the PSD file that Aperture can see. Everything else sounds OK.

I was hoping to be able to make adjustments to the
16-bit file in Photoshop and then flatten it and
bring it back to Aperture. Is that possible?

That should be fine, though there is no need to flatten... I open versions for external editing, leave them in 16-bit mode, do a number of alterations and then save out the file - on return to Aperture the changes are picked up. Other than the possibility you are not saving the file with compatibility mode enabled copying layers into the 16-bit PSD should be fine.

If you try "Save As" on that Photoshop 16-bit file to the desktop, and try looking at it with Preview is it also white?

Reply

Answer 4

Badlydrawnboy Author

Level 2

363 points

Jan 22, 2006 10:14 PM in response to kgelner

I really appreciate your help with this. I'm learning as I go and this is still pretty new to me.

I'll try to be even more specific in case that helps. Compatibility mode is in fact turned on, but there's something else that is strange that I suspect might have to do with the problem.

1. I export master image from Aperture (RAW)
2. I use auto adjustments in ACR and open in Photoshop as 16-bit
3. I add adjustment layers, make changes on the file
4. I go back to Aperture, open that same file in external editor (PSD)
5. Back in Photoshop, I apply an action (posted here on the Board by Ian) that a) selects previous document (ACR version), selects all, closes the ACR, pastes into the Aperture PSD (anti-aliasing: none), flattens, converts to 8-bit and then closes the file

(I understand from your post that I don't have to flatten or convert to 8-bit if I want to keep the file in 16-bit - thanks for letting me know that)

Here's the thing. When I try to go through the steps in the action "manually", I am not able to paste the ACR version into the Aperture PSD. What happens is I choose select all, then copy, then close the ACR version... and then when I go up to the "Edit" menu to select "paste", it is greyed out. I can't for the life of me figure out why this works in the action but won't work when I go though it myself.

Finally, I tried re-opening the white file from Aperture "in external editor" and it opens into Photoshop white as well. In the layers palette the original image (the exported version from Aperture, not the one I adjusted from Photoshop) is clearly visible in the background layer, with one all-white layer on top. I imagine this is very confusing... I hope you can make sense of it!

Reply

Answer 5

Badlydrawnboy Author

Level 2

363 points

Jan 22, 2006 10:32 PM in response to Badlydrawnboy

Okay, I've got it working now but I still don't really understand what was wrong!

If eliminate step 3 above and paste the ACR file into the Aperture PSD and then close and return to Aperture without any adjustments, the file displays properly in Aperture. Then when I open it again in Photoshop via "open in external editor" and make changes, add adjustment layers, etc. and close and return to Aperture, it shows up just fine.

So for some reason I can't make the changes in Photoshop first. I've got to go back into Aperture, and then open again in Photoshop. Not THAT big of a deal... just two more keystrokes... but would be nice to know why!

Thanks again for all of your help.

Reply

Answer 6

kgelner

Level 4

1,205 points

Jan 22, 2006 10:36 PM in response to Badlydrawnboy

<...>

Here's the thing. When I try to go through the steps
in the action "manually", I am not able to paste the
ACR version into the Aperture PSD. What happens is I
choose select all, then copy, then close the ACR
version... and then when I go up to the "Edit" menu
to select "paste", it is greyed out. I can't for the
life of me figure out why this works in the action
but won't work when I go though it myself.

Finally, I tried re-opening the white file from
Aperture "in external editor" and it opens into
Photoshop white as well. In the layers palette the
original image (the exported version from Aperture,
not the one I adjusted from Photoshop) is clearly
visible in the background layer, with one all-white
layer on top. I imagine this is very confusing... I
hope you can make sense of it!

The last part actually made the most sense to me...

It really seems like just as you are noticing in the manual operations, something is going wrong in the process of selecting the ACR image and pasting it into the exported PSD. That all-white layer is a giveaway that something in the pasting process is going wrong in the action, and basically just creating an all-new layer that has nothing in it. My guess is if you remove that all-white layer and save the file that returning to Aperture would show you the background image from the file.

I am not sure what could be going wrong there except that it could be the process you are trying does not work well with CS, and needs CS2 to work properly. I have not tried the whole smart object approach posted earlier so I am not really sure of problems that may arise.

Have you thought about batch-converting your RAW files in Photoshop ACR to 16-bit TIFF files and importing them instead? You'll still get the same degree of flexibility in alterations you can make to the images. You can even edit these TIFF masters directly in Aperture through the Finder without going through Aperture, if you want to save a little space and avoid the creation of a new version for some Photoshop work.

You can also import 8-bit TIFF files as well but if you plan to do any alterations it's really better to work with 16-bit images from the start as it gives you the maximum ability to work with tones in an image without posterization.

Reply

Answer 7

Badlydrawnboy Author

Level 2

363 points

Jan 23, 2006 9:44 AM in response to kgelner

Just to make sure I understand what you're suggesting in tems of workflow...

1) Import images from my CF card/camera (with Image Capture? Bridge?)
2) Batch convert with ACR to 16-bit TIFFs (I understand what batch convert means, but I'm not sure how to do this. Would I write an Automator script?)
3) Import the files into Aperture

I'm not sure what you mean by "editing the masters directly in Aperture through the Finder without going through Aperture". Can you elaborate on that?

I guess the only problem with the workflow above is that for each image I'd have an 8 MB RAW file, a 45 MB TIFF stored in a folder somewhere, and a 45 MB TIFF in the Aperture library. That's almost 100 MB per photo!

Of course I could set up the workflow to trash the 16-bit TIFFS after they've been imported into Aperture. This would end up using about the same amount of storage that I'm using with my current workflow (the elaborate process I described in the posts above).

Does this make sense? Any ideas on where I can learn more about batch processing and setting up an Automator action to do that?

Thanks so much again.

Reply