8 Replies Latest reply: Sep 8, 2011 10:47 AM by Thisisntmyrealnameforsure
Thisisntmyrealnameforsure Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Does anyone know how I can use my AppleID without supplying a credit card number? After my recent *fun* with Sony's security holes I AM NOT GIVING MY CARD DETAILS TO ANY COMPANY UNLESS I HAVE TO.

 

Apple - There is no reason to ask for it until I want to purchase! I should be able to use the app store and itunes store with out this first. I do not know how secure your code is. I expect that you put as much effort into security as every other company. In my experience that is as little as possible. So please don't take this the wrong way, but **** no I am not giving out my card details. I'll buy an iTunes card with cash and use that, thanks.


MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6)
  • John Hammer1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,805 points)

    You need to supply a credit or debit card, or have a prepaid iTunes card in hand, to prevent naughty people from creating Apple IDs with no intention of using them, or with the intention of using them for illicit purposes.

     

    Read this thread here:

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/11298067#11298067

  • Thisisntmyrealnameforsure Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for your reply, but I don't think it really addresses my question. I would buy an iTunes card *if* I found something that had a fee associated *and* I want it.

     

    At this point I can't even download free content / apps. I am not spending money for a card that I might not ever use. I paid enough for the mac book already. I am not supplying a credit card number as this is certainly less safe than not supplying one.

     

    I have never been asked to hand over my credit card blindly to enter a physical store or to browse any other online store. Before Sonys app store security issue, I would probably have agreed, but now I have no reason to trust Apple any more that I trust Sony (or any other large enterprise). They are not answerable to anyone.

     

    I am sure that there must be some other way I could verify my account that does not involve me essentially signing a blank cheque (handing over my card info), or spending my hard earned?

     

    I have tried to follow Apple's instructions which tell me that there should be a 'none' next to payment method. It isn't there.

     

    I also do not know what sort of malicious use I could get out of an apple ID. If this is the concern, I  would have to again question the security or thought put into their application if as an unpaid member I can already cause the world to end? Would you give your credit card info to someone like this?

     

    I would love to hear Apple's comments on this.

  • Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (41,285 points)

    There is no 'other way' you are deciding that you will not use Apples online stores because you disagree with their authentification methods, and that is your right.

  • John Hammer1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,805 points)

    So which is it? "I'll buy an iTunes card with cash and use that," or, "I would buy an iTunes card *if* I found something that had a fee associated *and* I want it"?

     

    As Csound1 said, the options I described are the ones available. If none of them are acceptable to you, then you won't be using the iTunes Store.

     

    Please note that there is no "Apple" here; it's just other users like you, me, and Csound1. If you want to make a suggestion or complaint to Apple, try here:

    http://www.apple.com/support/feedback/

    ...but don't hold your breath while waiting for a personalized reply.

     

    As for security, I'm sure there are things that can and have happened. However, with 10 billion songs and 15 billion apps downloaded as of the most recently released figures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_Store), I imagine that it's more secure than most things on the net, including bank websites, and no issue is at the level of a "problem" or concern for the typical user.

  • FishComputer Level 4 Level 4 (1,035 points)

    Thisisntmyrealnameforsure wrote:

     

    Does anyone know how I can use my AppleID without supplying a credit card number? After my recent *fun* with Sony's security holes I AM NOT GIVING MY CARD DETAILS TO ANY COMPANY UNLESS I HAVE TO.

     

    Apple - There is no reason to ask for it until I want to purchase! I should be able to use the app store and itunes store with out this first. I do not know how secure your code is. I expect that you put as much effort into security as every other company. In my experience that is as little as possible. So please don't take this the wrong way, but **** no I am not giving out my card details. I'll buy an iTunes card with cash and use that, thanks.

    Apple is not sony

     

    you can remove the credit card imediatly after setting up the account

     

    its a secure verification method

     

    you CAN create a accnt without a credit card --> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2534

  • Thisisntmyrealnameforsure Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for the replies. Lets see if I can address the issues and my concerns.

     

    >> So which is it? "I'll buy an iTunes card with cash and use that," or, "I would buy an iTunes card *if* I found something that had a fee associated *and* I want it"?

     

    It shouldn't matter which. Would you hand over your credit card at the door to a shop? Would you pre-buy a certain amount of credit with a store you may not want anything from?

     

    >> There is no 'other way' you are deciding that you will not use Apples online stores because you disagree with their authentification methods, and that is your right.

     

    True and correct. So far I am now finding what I need through Google and not browsing the app store. I feel sorry for the poor developers who may be missing out on my business and potentially that of other careful customers because of this. They pay a lot to get their app on there and only get a percentage of any fees. If I can't use the store then I can't impulse buy.

     

    >> As for security, I'm sure there are things that can and have happened. However, with 10 billion songs and 15 billion apps downloaded as of the most recently released figures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_Store), I imagine that it's more secure than most things on the net, including bank websites, and no issue is at the level of a "problem" or concern for the typical user.

     

    Yes. Absolutely. Blind faith with no recourse! Thats the way to live. Numbers of downloads is the same as security! Really? I am an IT professional. One of which a lot of other professionals and large enterprises come to for assistance. I have consulted on many facets of IT for a great number of fortune 500 companies. I *know* that most security is not what people think it is. A quick google for 'itunes store hacked' reveals a number of articles showing how insecure it is. A couple of results list headlines such as:

     

    Apple iTunes accounts hacked (2010 : http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/07/04/app-store-hacked/)

    Apple Store hacked (2010 : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2665383?start=0&tstart=0)

    The mystery of vanishing iTunes credit ( 2 days ago : http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=83E9501F-1A64-67EA-E49EABC0DB63753B )

     

    >> Apple is not sony

     

    Nope. It isn't Sony had a good reputation for quality products and customer care. This is not usually Apple's strong suit.

     

    >> you can remove the credit card imediatly after setting up the account

     

    Does this *actually* remove the information from all their databases and systems or like most enterprises is this still stored just unlinked to my username? Does this get removed from their backups too?

     

    >> its a secure verification method

     

    So is / was Sony's, but their back end systems were insecure making the whole verification process null. Without knowing that the rest of the system is secure too verification is only a small part of the security question. In real world terms Its like me having an armoured door with armed guards, but leaving the toilet window wide open.

     

    >> you CAN create a accnt without a credit card -->http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2534

     

    Unfortunately I did find that link before posting and it is no longer accurate. I tried this to resolve the issue to my chagrin as I have an Apple ID that will not let me proceed without adding card details. I suppose this goes to demonstrate the lack of a customer focus for their company.

  • John Hammer1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,805 points)

    So you didn't really come here to ask a question. You just wanted to badmouth Apple's business model and store policies. OK, mission accomplished. Buh-bye, now.

  • Thisisntmyrealnameforsure Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Excuse me? I haven't bad mouthed Apple's business model. I like it. I think the app store is a great idea and should make them and the developers into a community that works for the greater good. I'm not quite sure I see where you think I bad mouthed them, but if you can show me that I'd happily retract any erroneous statement.

     

    I'm going to assume that you are referring to 'I suppose this goes to demonstrate the lack of a customer focus for their company.' For anyone that has been in IT since before it was cool and before the iPod revolution, they will remember and see that customer care is not Apple's strong point. Their strong points are excellent hardware, an excellent and efficient and secure OS. Every company has its good and bad points. Those of us that can objectively inspect and review these are the better off for the knowledge.

     

    Also, I welcome intelligent feedback far better than blind optimism. In short my issues are:

     

    1: Their docs say I should be able to sign-up and use the app store without supplying *ANY* financial information prior to wishing to purchase. This is as *any* shop.

     

    2: Since the incident I have mentioned, I will not put my credit card details into any site. This should not prevent me from purchasing as I can obtain iTunes cards at any number of retail outlets pretty much anytime of the day or night.

     

    I will admit that people suggesting with no concrete proof that I put my card details / PIN / personal information anywhere will arouse my frustrations. Although I should in some ways thank people that do because if there was only good advice I'd be out of a job pretty quickly. I'd actually have to go work for a living instead of being the one (usually) handing out the fix to people who have hit trouble.

     

    My only reason for posting was to find any answer that met my criteria:

     

    Accessing and using the App store.

    Not inputting my card details or shelling out money until I want to buy.

     

    I was not looking to be evangelised to. I have already bought a Mac. I love it. I love the interface. I love the long battery life. I love the wireless capability (good signal and speeds). It is however a tool to do what I want and not a religion. I personally pity those who are insecure enough in their choices to need to convince others of their opinions. You will notice that I backed up my comments with external references to ensure that this was not just my opinion. I would hope that this would make you read the articles and consider any effects this might have on you and your decisions. However beyond that if you are happy to supply your information that is your choice and I would respect that. It would be an informed decision. I would be happy to receive similar information from you. If you have any links like 'Apple's store unhackable, security tests show' etc I would be very happy to read those. If you have any links to a data retention policy from Apple I would also read it and weigh that in with my other deciding factors.

     

    I welcome helpful and reasoned feedback. In fact the best answer on her I received was the 'There is no 'other way' you are deciding that you will not use Apples online stores because you disagree with their authentification methods, and that is your right.' comment which was accurate, informative and helpful if not what I wanted to hear / read. So far this is the approach that I have used to work around this issue. It would be nice to find an answer that did lead me to being able to use the app store in a way that makes me comfortable, but without cited references and details this seems increasingly unlikely.

     

    You will have to excuse my skepticism with regards to security. As I have said this is my experience with large enterprises and Apple is most likely no different. It is not a comment on their business model. It is a comment more on the capitalist world and its nature to devote most of its money and efforts towards profits and share holders rather than its customers, community, employees, quality of products. It is not that Apple or any of the other businesses wouldn't like to, but it costs more and in this world that means the time and efforts go to the revenue streams security only costs companies money. Usually much more than they would lose otheriwse so it is secondary. It is not Apple's, or Sony's or any other corporations fault. It is ours as consumers and individuals. It is yours and mine for not demanding the quality. For not demanding the security. For accepting the capitalist world as it is. Now to dispell your assumptions that I am a communist (although that is much misunderstood anyway) I have my own businesses that are mature, with happy customers and I earn a good enough living. It doesn't mean I want to throw my hard earned away because I didn't take all reasonable precautions to protect it. Maybe you have enough money that you can just not care. Maybe it has come to you without effort. Maybe none of this is accurate. I have had to work extremely hard for mine. I would prefer to side with the safer option and perform my due dilligence before I choose another option.

     

    Maybe you could share the information that you have that I am clearly missing. I would indeed like that and it might help me more than fatuous comments and unsubstantiated comments?