Media Offline on my Cloned Backup Drive

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Media Offline on my Cloned Backup Drive

When I've finished working on my project, I use SuperDuper to clone the External G-Tech drive (which holds most of my Media) to an internal Drive on the MacPro.

The project is in my Movies folder on the Lion system. This is backed up regularly with TimeMachine.

Backups are of little use if they don't work, so this morning, launched FCP X with the G-Tech drive switched off.

I watched the progress as the application launched, and it clearly named each of the Events on the Internal Drive but when it finished launching, all the footage was offline.

All the footage is on the drive - my original XDCAM footage - and the alias files which FCP X for some reason calls "original" when you import footage with everything unchecked.

Does anyone have any idea how that can happen on a cloned backup - and what I can do about it?

(It's a little worrying).

Andy

Final Cut Pro X, Mac OS X (10.7), "I've taught you all I know, and still you know nothing".

Posted on Sep 11, 2011 10:17 PM

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Answer 1

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Tom Wolsky

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Sep 12, 2011 1:25 AM in response to andynick

The referenced event for a project is a specifc event or events on specific drives. If you move the material to another drive the application doesn't know it's the same material.

Try going into project properties Cmd-J and clicking on modify referenced events and see what happens if you point it at the media's new location.

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Answer 2

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 2:07 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Thanks Tom.

the Modify Referenced Events doesn't seem to give me the opportunity to point to any drive or anything - just change the order of my Events if I want to. On another project, a dropdown politely suggests I connect the Media drive.

I suspected it might be the name of the drive that's the problem but it's not consistent - because yesterday, I inadvertenly left my backup (internal) drive mounted after restarting the mac. FCP X quietly used this internal drive - with all ciips connected.

It was only when I noticed that some Event changes I'd made were not there that I suspected something was wrong.

In the current climate, I obviously suspected an Autosave failure - but then I realised that project changes (to the timeline) I'd made after the Event changes (reel names) were there.

I realised what had happened and closed FCP X, then ejected the backupdrive. When I restarted FCP X, everything was OK again.

It was only this morning when I deliberately tried to launch FCP X with the external (working) HD disconnected that the media was offline.

When I have time, I'll try temporarily renaming the backup drive to the same as the (ejected) working drive - but I'm sceptical because the event Library currently shows the drive and all the Events - correctly named. It's just the media that it doesn't read.

At worst, I could re-import the media. I just tried that with one clip and it retained all the info on that clip - keywords, in and out, etc. It would take a long time though.

Andy

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Answer 3

Tom Wolsky

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Sep 12, 2011 2:14 AM in response to andynick

When you click Modify References you don't get a dialog that tells you where the referenced events are supposed to be and let's you select select another event with the same name?

Basically you're using the application incorrectly. Your clone procedsure is wrong for an application with no reconnect operation. If you want to backup your media you should do it inside the application. Duplicate the project and referenced events, or duplicate an event.

You could also rename the clone drive. That will sometimes fool an application into thinking it's working with the same media. At least that worked in legacy FCP.

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Answer 4

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 4:28 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote: When you click Modify References you don't get a dialog that tells you where the referenced events are supposed to be and let's you select select another event with the same name?

No - I don't. As I said, the Modify Referenced Events doesn't give me the opportunity to point to any drive or anything - just 'drag' to change the order of my Events. On another project, a dropdown suggests I connect the relevant Media drive.

Events on the backup clone are not listed in 'Modify References' - but they are listed in the Event Library - together with keywords and Reel Names etc.

Tom Wolsky wrote: Basically you're using the application incorrectly. Your clone procedsure is wrong for an application with no reconnect operation. If you want to backup your media you should do it inside the application. Duplicate the project and referenced events, or duplicate an event.

I don't understand. A clone is identical to the original - why would this not work?

If I were to backup through FCP X, can you suggest an efficient way to do it? I have more than 1 TB of media in the Events - from what I see, FCP X would back everything up every time I duplicated Events and Projects - unless I've got it wrong, this would take an age.

Tom Wolsky wrote: You could also rename the clone drive. That will sometimes fool an application into thinking it's working with the same media.

I'd agree with you if the app wasn't recognising the drive, or the Events - but it's listing all the Events and their contents correctly (apart from the actual footage being offline) so surely it must be recognising the drive?

Andy

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Answer 5

hafken

Level 4

1,225 points

Sep 12, 2011 5:20 AM in response to andynick

I don't understand. A clone is identical to the original - why would this not work?

I suspect that Apple embeds lower level information about the the hard drive within Event files, and this is what prevents you from cloning using the Finder. Even if the HD name is the same, there are some unique identifiers that you can't duplicate. Take a look at some of the Event folders (like where the thumbnails are stored) -- you will see weirdly named folders as opposed to simple file names. I think this is part of what prevents us from reconnecting Events when they are copied in the Finder.

Projects do not seem to have this "problem." But obviously Events are where most of the content lives.

I really hope Apple gives us the ability to reconnect media files ourselves.

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Answer 6

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 6:02 AM in response to hafken

hafken wrote:

I suspect that Apple embeds lower level information about the the hard drive within Event files, and this is what prevents you from cloning using the Finder.

I'm cloning the drive using Shirt-Pocket's SuperDuper - which claims to make the recipient drive identical to the donor drive. I would have thought everything would be transferred.

Andy

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Answer 7

Tom Wolsky

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Sep 12, 2011 6:15 AM in response to andynick

Does the clone have the same name? Is it on the same bus?

I have more than 1 TB of media in the Events - from what I see, FCP X would back everything up every time I duplicated Events and Projects - unless I've got it wrong, this would take an age.

Doesn't it take an age to clone the drive?

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Answer 8

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 6:44 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote:

Does the clone have the same name? Is it on the same bus?

Erm . . . how can I find out the bus? (We talked about the name in a post above).

Tom Wolsky wrote:

Doesn't it take an age to clone the drive?

No, not once you've backed up for the first time.

Unless you've added swathes of media, SuperDuper only takes a few seconds. It does a thing called 'Smart Update' which only erases and copies anything needed to make the drives identical - rather than copy everything.

I've used it for years - it's extremely useful. As you know, you can't boot from a TimeMachine drive but you can from a cloned System drive.

You can also set it to eject the drive, boot from the drive, or shut down the Mac once it's finished.

Andy

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Answer 9

hafken

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Sep 12, 2011 6:49 AM in response to andynick

Can you try an experiment with one of your events on the cloned drive -- move the Analysis and Render folders out of the Event folder? Everything else I looked at in the Event folder doesn't seem to use anything strange for naming. Again, I suspect the naming scheme of the folders within those have some sort of embedded unique identifier that is tripping things up.

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Answer 10

Tom Wolsky

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Sep 12, 2011 7:59 AM in response to andynick

how can I find out the bus? (We talked about the name in a post above).

There is one reference in this thread to the drive name. It's unclear whether the drive has the same name. Yes or no?

The bus is what connects the drive to the motherboard. FireWire, USB, SATA, SCSI, whatever. The application might identify the source based on the bus it's on. I don't know if this is the case but it might be.

That's no longer cloning. When SuperDuper! is used to clone a drive, it's a clone. When it's used for incremental backups as you're doing it cannot be a clone because the drive directory is being rewritten. It has to be because files will have different creation and modification dates, and the directory structure will be modified.

It seems like you have your procedure backwards. If you're using SuperDuper! to clone and backup then why are you doing it from an external drive to an internal drive. It would be much better to use the internal for your events and projects as the bus is much faster, and use the external as the backup. Try assigning the backup exactly the same name as the master drive.

The projects should not be on the system drive as the project folders contain media for playback.

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Answer 11

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 8:37 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote:

There is one reference in this thread to the drive name. It's unclear whether the drive has the same name. Yes or no?

No - I didn't give my internal drive the same name as my external drive.

Tom Wolsky wrote:

The bus is what connects the drive to the motherboard. FireWire, USB, SATA, SCSI, whatever. The application might identify the source based on the bus it's on. I don't know if this is the case but it might be.

All I know is the external drive is on firewire 800 - connected to the front of the MacPro. The other drive is internal.

Tom Wolsky wrote:

That's no longer cloning. When SuperDuper! is used to clone a drive, it's a clone. When it's used for incremental backups as you're doing it cannot be a clone because the drive directory is being rewritten. It has to be because files will have different creation and modification dates, and the directory structure will be modified.

Point taken - thanks.

Tom Wolsky wrote:

It seems like you have your procedure backwards. If you're using SuperDuper! to clone and backup then why are you doing it from an external drive to an internal drive. It would be much better to use the internal for your events and projects as the bus is much faster, and use the external as the backup. Try assigning the backup exactly the same name as the master drive.

That's contrary to what I gathered from the FCP forum (years ago). Over there they frequently recommended an external firewire drive as it's faster than the internal Mac drives.

I'm very happy to swap them around on your recommendation though. The 2 TB internal is actually two 1 TBs Raided together, so it should be quick.

Tom Wolsky wrote:

The projects should not be on the system drive as the project folders contain media for playback.

Again, contrary to what I learned from the FCP forum - they recommended putting the projects in a folder in the root of the system - but I bow to your superior knowledge.

I'll change the internal drive name to the same as the external and try again - and I'll let you know what happens.

Andy

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Answer 12

Tom Wolsky

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Sep 12, 2011 8:40 AM in response to andynick

Again, contrary to what I learned from the FCP forum

That would be correct for FCP7 not for X.

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Answer 13

andynick Author

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Sep 12, 2011 10:03 AM in response to andynick

Well, here's the joke . . .

Before I got time to make any changes to the hard drive name, we needed a still from the project (for the blog) so I opened a clip in the Timeline and exported it - except it didn't export - it threw up an error.

I quit the app and restarted the Mac (forgetting to power off the external HD) - so both the External HD and the Internal (backup) HD mounted.

Not noticing this, I launched FCP X.

Guess what?

It loaded the Events from the Internal HD - loads of red 'offline' but I noticed the red was disappeariing fast.

All the Events on the Internal HD loaded - and work.

When I click on the External HD, I get a message saying there are no Events on it!

D'ya ever get the impression your application is running on a wing and a prayer?

Andy

PS - The SheepDogBlog is on this link:

http://www.workingsheepdog.co.uk/sheepdogblog/

(The picture in question is not up yet)!

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Answer 14

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

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Sep 12, 2011 10:18 AM in response to andynick

Is there a Final Cut Events folder at the top level of the external drive?

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Answer 15

hafken

Level 4

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Sep 12, 2011 11:02 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

It's possible that FCPX now is seeing the Events on both drives as the same, and so is only showing you one copy. I remember reading something in the manual about how it will connect to the first copy of the Event it finds.

FYI, an internal non-system drive should always be faster than FW800 (800Mb/s), as it uses SATA (minimum 150Gb/s, these days 300Gb/s). eSATA (external SATA) drives would be as fast. If you have two set up as RAID 0, that is even better. So definitely your internal drives sound like the better media drive, and the external as your backup.

Also, SuperDuper does not maintain incremental backups (at least, not that I know of) -- it does maintain a clone and works quickly because it only copies files that have changed since the last time you cloned the drive. Just like 'rsync' (which might even be part of the technology under-the-hood). I use the software myself to maintain a clone of my boot drive.

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