Major problems with Thunderbolt display & MB Air

Now that you mention it, I recall that the TB Display not only caused wake problems with my Mac "Mini" (only "mini" in physical size, btw*), but when sleeping the Mac Mini got very hot. I thought this was very strange. There were several other major problems with the Mac on the TB Display. All these problems went away (and the Mac Mini is cool--in every way) since I swapped out the TB Display for the Apple 27" LED Display...WHICH I didn't know worked with the TB port in the first place! Very happy now and stress-free!

Go ahead and exchange it. Apple knows there are problems with the TB Display!

(*16GB RAM, 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 256GB solid-state drive PLUS 750GB (7200- rpm) hard drive PLUS 6 ext hard drives+flash drives, dual displays, two color inkjet printers, HP LaserJet, scanners, several ethernet and USB hubs, and FIOS. But we also have a G5 and MacBook Pro, G4, and iMac.) (BTW...Apple doesn't tell you that the Mac "Mini" supports 16GB RAM.)

ravenlynch wrote:

@LaraCroft_NYC: Thanks for directing me over here... I had started my own thread unbeknownst that so many people were having the same problem. I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse!

When it goes into sleep mode, it gets worse. Temperature hovers around 176 degrees and the fans spin at 3800 RPM to control a runaway thermal meltdown. The only thing that stops this scenario is unplugging the MBA from the TBD.

This is nuts... 207 degrees will over time destroy the MBA!

Mine stopped working! Last saturday I touched the keyboard to awake the computer, the display showed the login screen for about a second, and then it went black. Now nothing works.

My display was operational for about 6 weeks....

By the way, I am now using the MBA with my old monitor, so the computer's display port is working.

Oh please...everyone returned their displays? Not hardly. It appears to be a small batch of displays.

Appears? ...To whom?

tthiel1 wrote:

It appears to be a small batch of displays.

To anyone actually reading and comprehending this thread.

No I didnt return it.

I had the usb lag issue. Causing Wacom Tablet cursor to disappear, lag from Apple usb keyboard.

Since the 2 updates MBA and TB Display it works fine. I didnt have any other problem like plug/unplug w/ wake or display, FW, Network etc... some are encountering.

There is a flow somewhere in the TB part of that screen but I got lucky with minor ones that have been solved.

Hi,

Just out of interest, what were the many problems?

The only problems I experienced with my original TB display were those relating to connected devices. The display itself performed faultlessly.

LaraCroft_NYC wrote:

I used the TB display with and without things attached and TWO Thunderbolt displays exhibited all the same problems with the operation of the Mac, and there there were many problems.

Phips wrote:

LaraCroft_NYC: The thing is, the TB display IS the LED display, just with Thunderbolt added. So if you're not attaching anything to the ports on the TB display, you've got yourself an LED display anyway 😉

Oo, bad luck.

You didn't, by any chance, run the 'Thunderbolt Firmware Update' on your new TB display each time did you?

I have the update available, but I'm not applying it. I'm fairly sure that's where my problems started with the first display.

bazaarone wrote:

To be fair - I've gone through 3 of these displays, and so far all of them have been buggy. Most interesting is the fact that they've all exhibited different issues. I'd be a lot more willing to concede that this is an isolated issue if it was a consistent set of problems, and if people weren't experiencing those problems with multiple displays.

Seriously, what's the chance I would get 3 defective displays over the course of 2 months if it were an isolated issue? And if it was a problem with my system, wouldn't the issues be the same with each display?

Which reminds me - I need to call support again. 😝

I have new observations to give.

But first I remind you what was my problem: at first my MBA13" Core i7 and my TBDisplay were living the perfect love. But after 5 days, the PCIe protocole seems to fail after I wake up my MBA. No Camera, FW, USB, what so ever on the TBD. Reboot or PRAM reset doesn't resolve the problem. I only get the protocole back if I replug the MBA "cold" (not used for a while) and wake it up. Very weird...

Today, a friend of mine just let me play with her MacBook Pro 15": it just worked instantely! With my MBA, still no USB, FW, FaceTime Camera; with the MBP, everything work just fine!! So my guess is that the lame TB connector they put in the MBA is the problem! It just didn't last more than 5 days!

If somebody has the same issue than I have, don't hesitate to share ideas of testing: I have the MBP for a couple of days left.

Mattheo,

I wrote in my post earlier that I'd decided to return my Thunderbolt display. This is the problem I had with my 11-inch Air: When I plugged it into the thunderbolt display and closed the lid, everything worked fine and dandy. I had a logitech USB dongle for a wireless mouse plugged into the back of the thunderbolt display. (I think having a USB item plugged in matters, but i'm uncertain of the logitech bit. I think I recreated the problem with a different USB item but can't remember now.) All was good. However, if I put the computer to sleep, and then unplugged the thunderbolt display from the macbook air, sometimes the macbook air won't come out of sleep. Or rather, it is awake but the display won't come back (the computer is running, I can turn the caps lock on and off, but the screen is always black no matter what.) The only way to get the computer up and going again is to hold the power button down 10 seconds to shut it off, and then to turn it back on. I tested this with my friend's 13-inch macbook air and the same exact thing happened.

When I took my monitor and computer to the apple store, I was able to recreate the problem on the first try with my air, thunderbolt display, and wireless mouse, which I'd brought with me. They then took my air and was able to recreate the problem on another internal thunderbolt display in their store. With that in mind, they said that they'd like to send my Air in for a logic board repair, but I didn't want them to do that since my air works wonderfully otherwise, and I'd prefer they not mess something else up. I mentioned that I recreated the exact same problem with my friend's 13-inch air and therefore ddin't think it was a logic board problem specific to my computer, but rather it seemed like a firmware problem. So I returned the display and figured I'd pick up another one when they got it figured out. But they haven't yet.

However, your post has me agreeing with you that it might be the Air's thunderbolt controller, which we know is different than the MB Pro. (On the flip side, I believe I"ve read of problems with the thunderbolt display and the Mac Mini, which uses the same "light ridge" tb controller that the macbook pro has, so who knows??)

So if you still have the Pro, if you could just test what I did a couple times (plug something like a mouse into the USB, connect the Pro to the display, move the mouse around and put the computer to sleep, do this a few times, then disconnect the MBPro from the thunderbolt display and see if wakes up) , and share your results that would be great.

I have a 2011 MB Air i7 1.8 4GB/256GB and have been using iStat to monitor my system remotely from my iPhone before and after connecting it to the TBD. I have found that simply connecting the machine (in my case, my MacBook Pro as welll) causes it to have both thermal increases as well as other effects.

For example, I have no user level processes running beside Safari with 3 windows open. I will detail temp, CPU utilization and Exhaust RPM before connecting to TBD and 5 minutes afterward.

2011 MBA i7 Before TBD

-------------------------------------

CPU: 90℉

Mem Controller: 79℉

Memory: 88℉

Heatsink: 72℉

Exhaust (Fans) RPM:1996

CPU Utilization:1%

Free Memory:2.24GB

2011 MBA i7 While Connected TBD (Readings taken 300 sec later)

-------------------------------------

CPU: 151℉

Mem Controller: 115℉

Memory: 133℉

Heatsink: 94℉

Exhaust (Fans) RPM:1994

CPU Utilization:6%

Free Memory: 2.03GB

To summarize, CPU temp increases 61℉, Memory Controller up 36℉, Memory 45℉, and Heatsink (to be expected to draw away heat from CPU) increased 22℉. The exhaust fans never kicked in and as I write this from the machine in question, they still haven't. Free memory and CPU utilization both change due to the following;

There is one system process that kicks in harder when you connect the TBD display that accounts for the 5% CPU utilization and 210MB of RAM... kernel_task

Might this process have something to do with handling I/O with the TBD, and there is a problem with it? Note that there is nothing else connected to this setup (NO external USB, Firewire, etc). If I were to add an Apogee Duet 2 USB interface to the TBD, the CPU jumps to 176℉ after 5 minutes.

I sure hope Apple can and will fix this... soon!

I just got off the phone with Apple Care and talked with a senior engineer regarding this situation. Both people that I talked with seemed to take this very seriously and were very interested. After spending an hour documenting this problem, they had me reinstall the Thunderbolt Software Update, which must be installed on every machine that uses Thunderbolt. You can find it as well as a reference to the latest Boot ROM and Thunderbolt Firmware.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4644

Be sure to install everything on that page if needed and to reinstall the Thunderbolt Software Update.

After reinstallation of the aforementioned s/w update, the exhaust fans no longer are revving out of control (not yet, at least) but the CPU is still extremely hot at 207℉. However, the MB Air is not hot to the touch so I'm not sure exactly what temperature is the threshold for when it becomes hazardous or seriously problematic. I do know that if it gets too hot you will get CPU and Memory errors which result in programs freezing or applications crashing, ultimately leading to having to reboot the machine. But the fans should control it from reaching that state.

Finally, it is NORMAL and to be expected for the Thunderbolt cable, especially at the connection points at the computer, to get warm. This is because there are microprocessors in it, much like a graphics controller, so I've been told.

Hope that helps someone!

Cheers.

I am having the same issues and have experienced the same workarounds (with the same varying resolution).

Just adding my voice.

I have had Apple replace my Keyboard and my display. NOTHING is helping.

This display is full of issues.

Ethernet will disappear if the system sleeps. Keyboard may or may not work when plugged into USB.

I am running a new MBAir and have all updates installed. I am also using FileVault 2.

I again want to share my frustration with the Thunderbolt Display and my MacBook Air. It seems like problems currently only surface after my MBA has been powered down for the weekend. So this happens to most of my monday mornings. And while that's better than before the firmware update, it's just not good enough for a setup this expensive and for a brand name like Apple for that matter. "It just works", well that's just not the case.

Furthermore it has been weeks since we had a firmware update, so I'm getting a bit worried about getting a solution from Apple that way. It seems like it's a bigger problem without a solution in sight and maybe the problem is with the MacBook Air and not the Thunderbolt Display? Normally I would consider the 'regular' Cinema Display, however I NEED wired gigabit ethernet. Now I have a MacBook Air without wired Ethernet and Apple marketing sold me on this solution, that doesn't function like it's supposed to...

So here is what my Monday morning looks like for the first 30 or more minutes:

Legend:

[OK] or [X] = display Okay or Not working

MBA = MacBook Air

TC = Thunderbolt connector

TBD = Thunderbolt display

PWR = AC Power connector from the Thunderbolt Display

V = Arrow down

Power on MBA after the weekend (TBD is like always powered)

V

[OK] [X] (left display is MBA (secondary), right display is TBD (primary).

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Reconnect TC to MBA

V

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect PWR from TBD

Reconnect PWR to TBD

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Reconnect TC to MBA

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Shutdown MBA

Disconnect PWR from TBD

Reconnect TC to MBA

Reconnect PWR to TBD

Power On MBA

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Shutdown MBA

Disconnect PWR from TBD

Power On MBA (on battery)

Reconnect TC to MBA

Reconnect PWR to TBD

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

V

MBA display doesn't become primary display, so I can't do anything.

V

Reconnect TC to MBA

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Disconnect PWR from TBD

Reconnect PWR to TBD

Reconnect TC to MBA

V

[OK] [OK]

But after a minute or so the TBD garbles up again:

[OK] [X]

V

Disconnect TC from MBA

Reconnect TC to MBA

V

[OK] [OK]

And oh joy, it finally keeps working... for now... Quite frustrating.

As you can see the last 'method' was being done three times but it didn't always work. So we can conclude there is not a single method that works all the time. It seems quite random.

I really like this display when it works. I've been using Apple products since 1990 (Mac IIfx) but this has to be the most annoying issue I've come across. Not Apple worthy!

So pretty please Apple. I need a working solution to this issue. This just has taken too much of my time and my patience is fading... I'm not getting payed to investigate this kind of problem and I payed good money to get a working product, which I clearly didn't get...