Previous 1 2 3 4 Next 48 Replies Latest reply: Oct 25, 2011 11:14 AM by Rob A. Go to original post
  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    End or 2012 or early 2013 -- not really that important ... close enough.  My esitmate was based on 16 month cycle to go from a 4 to 4S.  Assuming a 5 would be a more significant jump than going from 4 to 4S hence my sometime 2013.

     

    Sounds like I'll pass on the 4S and wait and see what happens ... I'd be giving up a lot of my existing HTC EVO 4G function/features/performance if I went with 4S -- just not prepared to downgrade those features that are important to me.

  • igmackenzie Level 4 Level 4 (2,285 points)

    Apart from Flash/Silverlight issue what functions/features/performance would you be giving up?

  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    vazandrew wrote:

     

    Apple tried to work with adobe to make Flash work and it didn't happen, it would have been up to Adobe. But there's no point going over that as it's been discussed many times.

     

    4G simply isn't available in enough locations and needs to evolve a bit more as stated earlier.


    There are many ways of "trying" to work with folks -- as I understand it Apple tried to dictate "terms of service" and Adobe basically said we could never get Flash to work within those terms.  I don't really call that "Apple trying to work with Adobe"?

     

    “An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise,” reads clause 3.3.2 of the iPhone SDK agreement ... “No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).”


    But again, this has been repeated over and over and over -- which means people want Flash support.

     

    No Flash means that the iPhone browser is incapable of displaying a large portion of the internet. For example, free Flash games aren’t supported, videos can’t be streamed from the vastly popular television and movie site Hulu, and websites that use Flash to render content or navigation won’t work on the iPhone.


    It's really kinda strange actually, OSX has no barrier to Flash support.  I understand what Apple are trying to do, they are trying to gain COMPLETE control over a mobile (smartphone) market ... but are lacking enough market share to make that a reality.  Apple appear reluctant to change that philosophy regardless of what people want (the potential market).  They've positioned themselves in a Catch-22 which is really puzzling to me.

     

    But it is what it is, the Flash debate has gone on endlessly (quick search and it's a BIG topic for potential and existing iOS users) but the fact that this debate has gone on endlessly is probably a pretty good indication a philosophy change needs to happen on Apple's side NOT the other way around.

     

    Adam Dann, CEO of Nullriver, agrees that Flash would take away some of Apple’s control. Apple eventually banned Nullriver’s application NetShare because it violated AT&T Terms of Service agreement by turning the iPhone into a wireless modem for tethering. If Apple introduced Flash to iPhone, it’s possible Nullriver could code a Flash version of NetShare, repeating that violation, Dann said.

     

    The bottom line to an end user is a lot of missing features in the iPhone that are NOT missing in the other 70% of the devices.  If I were a shareholder, I'd be concerned about this rather "stubborn" attempt at control.

  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    igmackenzie wrote:

     

    Apart from Flash/Silverlight issue what functions/features/performance would you be giving up?


    4G and tethering.

  • igmackenzie Level 4 Level 4 (2,285 points)

    4G is almost non-existent, and I can tether with my iPhone 4, so I can't see why it would be any different on the 4S.

  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Well 4G LTe (WiMax) is very much in existance in the cities I work/live in and it's considerably faster than 3G.  So it's important to me.

     

    Interested on your Tether statement ... are you tethering with 3G or Wireless?  If you are tethering with 3G could you give me some details on how you are accomplishing that?

     

    Thanks, Rob

  • igmackenzie Level 4 Level 4 (2,285 points)

    Well, one place to look is here http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4517

  • diesel vdub Level 7 Level 7 (21,990 points)

    Rob A. wrote:

     

    Well 4G LTe (WiMax)

     

    A point of clarification, LTE and WiMax are versions of 4G, they are not the same.

     

    Rob A. wrote:

     

    Interested on your Tether statement ... are you tethering with 3G or Wireless?

    Another clarification, tethering via Wireless (Wi-Fi) is non-existent and pointless.

    The iPhone has been capable of tethering since iOS4 was released.  The 3GS and 4 are both capable of tethering.

     

    It sounds like your only issues are a lack of Flash/Silverlight support and WiMax. 

    Have you actually compared speeds on AT&T's 3G network to the speeds on Sprints Wi-Max network?  I only ask because my experience with the Wi-Max network (granted using Clearwire which is the same network) is they are very similar speeds to the 3G speeds I get on my 3GS.

     

    Wi-Max, in my experience, is not lightening fast 4G... it's just slightly faster than AT&T's 3G speeds.

  • vazandrew Level 6 Level 6 (17,040 points)

    Flash does not work well on mobile devices. They did work with Adobe, of course something that would compromise the device would be unacceptable.

     

    I don't see lack of flash as a deterrent, there are

    many apps and compatible sites that supercede the need.

     

    4G may be available in your area but it isn't for a lot of people and it drains battery, they are looking at the big picture. Tethering is available as was

    mentioned.

  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    diesel vdub wrote:

     

    It sounds like your only issues are a lack of Flash/Silverlight support and WiMax. 

    Have you actually compared speeds on AT&T's 3G network to the speeds on Sprints Wi-Max network?  I only ask because my experience with the Wi-Max network (granted using Clearwire which is the same network) is they are very similar speeds to the 3G speeds I get on my 3GS.

     

    Wi-Max, in my experience, is not lightening fast 4G... it's just slightly faster than AT&T's 3G speeds.


    I've compared AT&T's 3G and Sprint's 3G and Verizon's 3G vs. Verizon's 4G LTe and Sprints 4G WiMax.  Download speeds on Sprint was the fastest at 6+ Mbps on average with upload speeds at 1.3 Mbps on average, then Verizon a close 2nd to Sprint ... all the 3G performance numbers were around 0.4 Mbps to 0.7 Mbps and AT&T's 3G was the fastest but it's download speed was still 10X slower than Sprints 4G WiMax.

     

    A good example of where 3G falls short is YouTube videos and any streaming TV content ... the image quality is positively horrible from any of the 3G providers as they can't maintain a high enough data rate to show a good quality video.  However when 4G is running the quality is considerably better.

     

    I'm glad tethering is back in the iPhone, but tethering to 3G is probably going to be a pretty slow experience.

     

    I agree that 4G (and it's variants) is not main stream yet, but I'm fortunate that the area I live in (California) is adopting the format with increasing area coverage monthly (SF/Bay Area, LA, and more).  It is a little ironic that the Cupertino based company (aka Apple) doesn't have a device that can leverage 4G available in it's area.

     

    I haven't noticed any appreciable difference in battery life from 3G to 4G (atleast not on my HTC EVO 4G anyway).

     

    What I have wonder is why none of the SmartPhone devices incorporate solar cells into the back of the phones ... it's such an obvious nice feature to increase the phones charge duration.

  • diesel vdub Level 7 Level 7 (21,990 points)

    Look at it from this perspective.

    Sprint is the only US carrier with Wi-Max and likely moving to LTE in the next few years.

    No other carriers (to my knowledge) anywhere in the world use Wi-Max.  There are no Wi-Max/GSM world chips to make a true World phone with Wi-Max.  This would mean a "4G" phone for Sprint would be unique like the Verizon CDMA iPhone4.

     

    LTE is just too new, AT&T only has it in 5 markets in the US and AT&T is the largest carrier of iPhones in the US.

    LTE is not even rolled out in most of Europe.

    LTE simply is not ready to be a major player until more carriers roll it out.

     

    In order to have a 4G phone at this point there would need to be a unique Wi-Max/CDMA phone for Sprint, a LTE/CDMA phone for VZW and a LTE/GSM phone for AT&T.  Also, AT&T and VZW utlize different frequencies for LTE, so the LTE would not be interchangable between the two carriers.  If they went this route, they would have 3 unique versions of the 4S for the US.  Only the AT&T version would be usable outside the US.  This is not realisitic from a financial or business perspective.

     

    It sounds like you are happy with your EVO, maybe there is simply no reason for you to consider an iOS device.

  • fatfilipino Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Wait for the reviews to come out on how fast and awesome 4s is.. then you'll switch.. Oh and Apple always strikes deals with their carriers to let people early upgrade even before the normal early upgrade, so you should be getting a new phone every year or less... That's what I do, I just pay the sale price and thats it...

  • fatfilipino Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Galaxy S 2 battery is beyond horrible... A few of my friends are glued to their chargers   but it looks like a nice phone... why not just stick with the best selling phone, it's the best selling for a reason...

  • Rob A. Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Not sure I understand why it's not realistic to have 3 versions?  HTC, Samsung, Motorola all have multiple versions of their phones working on different networks ... I think you under estimate how easy (read not expensive) it is to have more than one version of a phone.

     

    But if you look at IDC data, the average smartphone owner upgrades every 18-24 months.  So it doesn't really matter what the current "network" standards are, as most will upgrade their smartphones anyway.  So no one that owns a smartphone now, it wondering if their 4G WiMax, LTe (or whatever you want to call it network) will be around beyond 2 years from now.  People get what works now with the expectation of upgrading 18-24 months to whatever is better.

     

    HTC EVO 4G has some things that I don't like ... the touch screen is often inaccurate even with repeated "training/calibartion", the camera is terrible, and the On/Off button is recessed to much making ON/OFF a chore, issues like that ... it's certainly not a "perfect" device.

     

    However, I'm not going to trade 4G WiMax for 3G and the lack of Flash support in order to get a better camera, better On/Off button and better touch recognition from the 4S.  It's a shame, I think the A5 dual is a great processor being held captive to a poor business decision.

  • fatfilipino Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    In the keynote, they stated iOs or iPhone users use the internet much more than any other mobile platform... why is that? iOs / iPhone doesnt even have 4G, At&t has terrible reception? NO.. it's a great phone with a great camera, that just got better... Should I even bring up the stats that iPhone 4 pictures get uploaded the most to social sites? I think you get the picture, it's a great phone and a great upgrade to an already blazing phone. So why hate? I just dont get people. in 2013, I think youll be waiting for the iPhone 7 becasue the 5 or 6 arent good enough for you? while we all enjoy this great strong technology in the iPhones...