Level 1

10 points

Is the iPhone 4S "world phone" locked or unlocked? And why can't I use an unlocked iPhone 4S with Verizon/Sprint?

After hearing that the iPhone 4S is a "world phone" that can "roam GSM networks in 200 countries around the world," I got to thinking how does this work and what are my options for purchasing with the intent to use the phone with various networks.

When they say "roam GSM networks", does this mean that the iPhone 4S is locked to one carrier (GSM or CDMA) but can $roam$ on someone elses network while abroad at a premium price (essentially what AT&T customers could do before I think)?

Or could it mean that the iPhone 4S is unlocked and I could swap in a GSM SIM chip from another country and use their network at THEIR rates? I'm guessing the former, but a true "world phone" would be the latter.

Additionally, the iPhone 4S is included on their "About the Unlocked iPhone" and states: "The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."

Assuming that this statement holds true Friday and Apple offers an unlocked iPhone 4S, why doesn't it work with CDMA carriers if it has the CDMA chip to do it? I mean it's obvious that the iPhone 4 cannot, but an unlocked iPhone 4S seems that it should be able to work with either network.

I did ask an Apple Support staff through the Apple Store online and the staff person didn't seem to know anything about the iPhone 4S, particularly in terms of unlocked versions.

Thanks for your input.

Posted on Oct 5, 2011 7:55 AM

63 replies

anthrovisual Author

Level 1

10 points

Oct 18, 2011 6:14 AM in response to macmedia

Thank you, macmedia, for sharing the video. I can't wait to hear your update after your trip next week.

Also,I can't recall if it will show the different carrier under settings whether the phone is locked or not. In my greener days, I tried using a T-Mobile card in a locked phone before I understood what "unlocked" really meant. I don't recall a pop up message so it might be possible that the phone is still locked. Maybe someone with better memory or more experience can verify? I can when I get home later today.

If the Sprint 4S is truly unlocked, then the next question is how and when they will lock it as stated in the latest report, and if this would be avoidable. After all, all the carrier has to do is change their policy and poof, no more unlocking at the consumer's request.

It's the begging part that really gets to me.

macmedia

Level 1

11 points

Oct 18, 2011 8:47 AM in response to anthrovisual

With my iphone 4 (on AT&T), if I put the TIM micro sim into there it gives me a message "INVALID SIM" with the cell phone signal bars displaying SEARCHING. With the sprint iphone it doesn't give that message and the correct carrier is displayed in the corner. So I think it does shipped unlocked.

I hate the idea that a carrier can "Push" an update onto your phone without asking!

anthrovisual Author

Level 1

10 points

Oct 19, 2011 7:47 AM in response to macmedia

Sprint went official and updated their website with the following:

http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Learn_more_about_using_a_local_interna tional_SIM_card_for_my_iPhone_4S/case-uh277325-20111013-160029?INTNAV=SU:DP:MVT

Learn more about using a local international SIM card for my iPhone 4S

Last Updated: Oct 19, 2011

Sprint's policy is to have the iPhone 4S SIM locked to our network domestically and internationally. We plan to allow existing customers in good standing to unlock the SIM for international use.

Customers can sign up for one of our international rate plans and use iPhone 4S in most countries all over the world. When traveling internationally, there is a setting that must be turned on within the device to connect to GSM. The phone will work with a SIM that is provided within the device out of the box. International voice and data charges are on a pay-as-you-go basis and vary based on the country where the customer is using their phone; a list of rates is available at www.sprint.com/international.

So does this mean that macmedia's phone is unlocked but will be locked after the "push."
And does "existing customers" mean customers who are upgrading only or all customers who are using Sprint now and in the future (so are new customers a year from now considered existing or do they lose this option)?

Also, I emailed Verizon and they sent their SIM card T&C that has been around for years it seems. It's the only official text I have found without mentioning the iPhone 4S:

Your Verizon Wireless Global Phone SIM Card Terms and Conditions

Your Verizon Wireless Global Phone is equipped with a compatible Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) Card (the Global Phone SIM Card) for use when roaming in 'GSM Mode' within the then-current Global Phone Service Area (GPSA), as published on www.verizonwireless.com. When traveling internationally outside of the GPSA, You may use the Global Phones in 'CDMA Mode'* throughout* Verizon Wireless' international roaming service area, subject to applicable rates, terms and conditions. A current list of countries where international roaming service is available is accessible at www.verizonwireless.com.
To obtain voice/data service outside of the GPSA using a Global Phone in 'GSM Mode', Your Global Phone must first be unlocked by entering a numerical code (Unlock Code) into the phone (see Your phone manufacturer's user guide for instructions). Once unlocked, You may insert another wireless carrier's SIM Card (Other SIM Card) into the Global Phone to obtain service from that carrier. Each Global Phone has a unique Unlock Code. Unlock Codes are available upon request from Verizon Wireless subject to the following terms and conditions:
1. You agree that Global Phone rates do not apply to any service obtained through the use of Other SIM Cards, and that Verizon Wireless is not responsible for, and has no information about, such service.
2. YOU AGREE THAT ANY AND ALL USE OF OTHER SIM CARDS IN THE GLOBAL PHONE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND EXPENSE AND IS SUBJECT TO THE RATES, TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE APPLICABLE WIRELESS CARRIER.
3. You agree that, to the extent applicable when using Other SIM Cards, Your use of the Global Phone remains subject to Your Verizon Wireless Customer Agreement, Calling Plan and Global Phone terms and conditions, including without limitation, the requirement to abide by all applicable foreign laws when using the Global Phone outside of the United States.
4. You agree that these Terms and Conditions become part of your Verizon Wireless Customer Agreement and Calling Plan.

From this, it sounds like they will unlock it when you are outside GPSA zones. Does that mean they won't unlock it if you are in one of their GPSA zones?
It also doesn't mention the 60 day wait that was mentioned in other articles.

Thoughts?

Are there any Verizon iPhone 4S owners that can confirm their unlock/lock status?

Oct 19, 2011 8:00 AM in response to anthrovisual

There was a VZW customer in another thread who is had his 4S unlocked and is using a local SIM in China. The title of the thread was something about turning off CDMA while roaming. You should be able to find it if you search.

anthrovisual Author

Level 1

10 points

Oct 19, 2011 8:45 AM in response to IdrisSeabright

Right. I forgot if it was an Apple Discussion post or a Verizon forum post but I did come across that. I'll paste his/her statement below: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3399616?answerId=16434110022#16434110022

Re: Using a Verizon iPhone 4s, need to disable CDMA in China???

Oct 18, 2011 8:35 AM (in response to peddler1000)

Here's the update: Verizon tech support has confirmed that Apple needs to modify the configuration options so in an area that has both GSM and CDMA, the user can select which network they will use (similar to what can be done on the Blackberry Storm 2, and perhaps other devices). Verizon does not have a timeline for the fix, but said that Apple is quite responsive. Let's hope so...

The initial implementation of the network "attachment" is the phone will automatically roam on CDMA if both GSM and CDMA are present. In a pure GSM environment, the phone will attach to GSM. Perhaps I should travel to Europe instead of Asia.

On another note, my 4s is unlocked and I was able to use a micro SIM card from a local Chinese cell phone in my iPhone 4s.

From earlier in the discussion, the OP stated that they unlocked the SIM, which I assume for now that they did so by calling Verizon and requesting the unlock (following the T&C above). I asked for them to clarify the unlocking process and will update here when I hear from them.

anthrovisual Author

Level 1

10 points

Oct 19, 2011 9:28 AM in response to anthrovisual

Re: Using a Verizon iPhone 4s, need to disable CDMA in China???

created by Meg St._Clair

in Using iPhone - View the full discussion

anthrovisual wrote:

That's very interesting. You said that you unlocked the SIM, did you have to call Verizon and request the unlock? Can you do that for any country you travel in? Have you been a Verizon customer for longer than 60 days or does the 60 day rumor matter?

Yes, you have to have been a VZW customer in good standing for at least 60 days. It's the phone that's unlocked, not the SIM. Once the phone is unlocked, it's unlocked.

I am still waiting to hear from peddler1000, but basically if all this holds then AT&T is the worst of the bunch since from my understanding they will not unlock their iPhones for international travelers, right? What was the saying, first is the worst...?

Oct 23, 2011 7:21 AM in response to anthrovisual

Hi guys can you guys come out from US,

i got unlock iphone 4s from australia. can any one tell me will it work with cdma. it is working fine with GSM.

Please ans my question. and if i take this phone in INDIA will it work for CDMA operator.

Please let me know

Oct 23, 2011 7:24 AM in response to APKA_RAJESH

No, unlocked iPhones don't work with CDMA networks. Only GSM.

sm1962

Level 1

0 points

Oct 28, 2011 3:19 PM in response to APKA_RAJESH

I bought a Verizon (CDMA) iphone 4s and travelled with it to India. It was unlocked as per Verizon. It roamed on the CDMA network in India ( with high roaming charges). I tried two different Airtel microsim cards in the slot, but neither of them picked up the GSM network, inspite of multiple calls to verizon and apple tech support. The SIM cards worked fine in a different phone.

V Disappointing trip. I may return the 4s and stick with the iphone 4, since the purpose of the update was to use the phone in India.

Incidentally, the micro-sim cards did not roam on the ATT network, when I returned to the US. I don't know if its an issue with Airtel roaming in the US, though the cards roamed fine in the Middle East.

Nov 11, 2011 9:48 AM in response to sm1962

sm1962, Thanks for sharing your experience! Please help is understanding the issues by answering the queries below:

Did you remove the micro SIM card from your 4S phone when it roamed on the CMDA network in India?

In other words, I want to clarify how you can be sure that it roamed on the CDMA network in India and not on GSM if it was unlocked as you say it was?

How did you verify if Verizon really unlocked your 4S GSM portion? It may not be unlocked to begin with. When you get/got back to US, can/did you check with another microSIM so see if the phone accepts other SIMs at all?

When you put the Airtel SIM cards in, what did it read? Invalid SIM or something else?

If the SIM cards 'roamed' fine in the middle east, that means the 4S accepts other GSMs, i.e. it is unlocked. But why it did not pick up Airtel network then?

Nov 11, 2011 11:07 AM in response to anthrovisual

According to this TUAW post <Sprint will begin locking iPhone 4S SIMs on November 11> Sprint will begin locking all iPhones sold after today.

sm1962

Level 1

0 points

Nov 12, 2011 6:53 AM in response to random-apple

I know it was roaming on CDMA because Verizon global customer service had me call a number, and confirmed that I was making a CDMA call, not a GSM call.

Whether I had the verizon micro sim card in the phone or not, it showed that it was roaming on the "bars", and I was able to make phone calls, using the CDMA.

When I put in the Airtel SIM card in India, it did read the card, said it was looking for a network, but never found the network.

I'm not sure why it didn't pick up Airtel in India, but the whole episode was so frustrating that I returned the 4s phone when I got back to the US, and have gone back to my iphone4.

I plan to use an unlocked GSM quadband phone with an Indian SIM card ( airtel or other ) the next time I am in India, unless I hear that someone else has more success using a Verizon iphone4s in India.

KiltedTim

Level 10

226,212 points

Nov 12, 2011 12:37 PM in response to sm1962

The reason it didn't pick it up is because there was a CDMA network available. This is true for Verizon and Sprint. If there is an available CDMA network, that network will ALWAYS take precedence over GSM on their phones. As far as they are concerned, the SIM card slot and GSM are ONLY there to provide some option for service when outside the range of their CDMA network or CDMA roaming partners. It's all about the $$.

WM06

Level 1

15 points

Nov 12, 2011 11:36 PM in response to KiltedTim

CDMA blows... Hopefully with LTE we won't be having these issues when the iPhone is bought unlocked. We can all just pop out the sim cards that LTE requires! And switch in between AT&T, Sprint and Verizon... and hopefully T-Mobile USA if it's still is around.

deggie

Level 10

167,525 points

Nov 12, 2011 11:50 PM in response to WM06

T-Mobile has no plans (or money) for a switch to a true 4G network. Which is why if the acquisition by AT and T is blocked they will most likely abandon the US market and sell off their assets.

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Is the iPhone 4S "world phone" locked or unlocked? And why can't I use an unlocked iPhone 4S with Verizon/Sprint?