Excellent reply. I think we can both agree that Photostream is extremely great at what it does. In response to a few of your repsonses:
1) I agree that you are still liable for infringing on copyrighted material. However, it is common practice in online infringment cases, particularly in ones where you don't know you are breaking copyright laws, for you to be given takedown notices and requests and have adequate time to react to them, obviously, how you respond to these requests are a major factor in determining your guilt and punishment. Of course in this regard, it's unlikely you will ever actually be prosecuted for copyright laws because photostream is for the most part personal. However this is hardly an excuse to continue breaking a law. I for one would like a sensible solution for eliminating illegal material from storage space that i've agreed to be in charge of. And not just because its likely i'll be liable, but because i'd like to have it easy to do the right thing.
2) You are right, it would probably be a really really cold day in **** if Apple were to be found legally liable for something their users had done, seeing as how we do agree to extensive EULA. And atleast on my part, if the photo was serious enough, deleting my entire photostream would be the only sensible solution. Additionally, quickly locating all of my devices and deleting the offending photos would be exactly what I would do. However, I think it's a reasonable complaint that I am legally responsible for content hosted by Apple that I can't easily make changes to.
3)There is a subtle difference here that I was trying to make. I agree iPhones are incredible when it comes to security. However, when something doesn't have a single delete function than the rammifications of losing a device become even greater. Lets explore this a little, suppose that I get a sensitive photo and a sensitive email from my work that has some work figures. I can view either of these sensitive articles. With the email, I have the ability to entirely remove that information from my device. The Photo however will automatically be sent to my photostream where it can't be deleted. For the next 30 days my phone will be a greater loss opportunity to me than it would be otherwise.
I think we can both agree that Photostream is good enough for mainstream use, and I think we both agree that Apple will probably add this feature in the near future.
My number 1 complain simply put. I am often put in a position where the only sensible solution is to delete my entire photostream, rendering it useless.
Also, in response to your second reply. I think you NAILED it! Why would I put anything that I really worried about security into something that has the word "stream" in it. Short answer, I wouldn't. And if I did, i would quickly want to remove it. Unfortunately Photostream doesn't have the proper controls to do so. It's SO easy and AUTOMATIC for things to get posted to the stream and yet difficult to remove them or even stop them from getting posted in the first place.
One would hope that Youtube wouldn't *need* a delete video ability, seeing as how Youtube would still include ALL of the same functionality, and youtube's purpose isn't to delete videos, it's to share them. And WHY would anyone post something to youtube that they were worried the whole world would see. But they do, and I think we both could think of a million reasons that a delete function is nice. It's kind of like that.
Agreed, and point well taken! I think we are on the same page here. The only thing I would reply in response to your post would be:
1) If served a cease-and-desist order in an online infringement case, the "Reset Photo Stream" option provided by Apple on it's iCloud site is more than an adequate and sensible solution for eliminating illegal material from storage a space that you've agreed to be in charge of.
2) You are correct, it would be a reasonable complaint that you could be held legally responsible for content hosted by Apple if it took some form of heroic efforts to remove said content. However, I do not think any court in this land would find favor in the argument that going to an easily accessible website, such as iCloud.com, and hitting a single button, such as the "Reset Photo Stream", which is provided to all users, would pass a scrutiny test of being a heroic or outlandish effort. I don't even thing that clicking a single button on a website would qualify for the "I can't easily make changes" statement.
3) I understand where you are going with your third point, but it really only applies with the following caveats: a) that you are the person taking the photo, or b) you are saving the photo attachment out of an email, and lastly, but most importantly c) that you have a live, streaming service like Photo Stream enabled while dealing with sensitive materials. That later of this of course would be a flagrant violation of security protocols. No amount of programming by Apple, Microsoft, or other company will eliminate the ability of a user to make mistakes, including circumnavigating common security measures and common sense.
You say that "the Photo however will automatically be sent to my photostream where it can't be deleted", but we all know that it can be deleted, and deleted immediately with the reset option available on iCloud. I see no reason why for the next 30 days you phone would be a greater loss opportunity than it would be otherwise. First, since you are carrying sensitive information like that on your iPhone, I imagine that you have turned off the "Simple Passcode" option on your phone and have an alpha numeric, case sensitive password that also contains several symbols and is at least 10 -12 characters long. That act alone should secure both your email and Photo Stream from prying eyes. If you have not done that, then Photo Stream security is the least of your worries. Second, if you have enabled the better password protection, upon discovering your phone stolen, lost or missing, simply use the remote capabilities to wipe the entire phone. At that point the phone will not be able to access the sensitive emails, documents and photos, including those images contained within Photo Stream.
Yes, we can both agree that Photo Stream is good enough, and I will agree with you, as I have said numerous times, that Apple will probably add this feature in the near future. I will even go so far as to speculate that it will be in the near future.
I will disagree with you however on one small point. I do not think the lack of ability to remove a single image from the stream renders it useless. It is very useful for it's intended purpose as a wireless pipeline for transporting images from one device to another. It is just useless if the sole, or primary, purpose you are using Photo Stream is to have control on a single photo by single photo basis. Then I would whole heartedly agree that it is useless and that Apple missed the mark on this one. I may be wrong here, as others within this discussion group seem to think is the case, but I just do not believe that Apple developed Photo Stream for that single image by single image, granular level of control. Is Photo Stream broken? Absolutely not! Is it useful? Beyond a doubt! Is it feature rich and perfect? Absolutely not! Will it evolve with features such as single image removal being added? Time will tell, but I think it is a safe bet!
The features that I hope they add are:
- Single photo deletion from the stream
- A time delay preference that allows the user to specify the amount of time between taking, or saving, an image and the time that it gets sent to the stream
- The ability to toggle Photo Stream from automatic to manual mode, so nothing gets uploaded until I hit a "Sync Stream" button
- The ability to recall images that were posted to the stream and already downloaded to other devices. This would happen immediately for all devises connected to a network, such as an AppleTV, or the next time they are connected to a Wi-Fi network in the case of mobile devices.
I have not heard anyone talking about this last option, but I think that the ability to delete a single photo that everyone is crying for is totally useless without this feature. Otherwise, it does not matter if you can delete a single photo from the stream, when within a second of it hitting the stream it has already been downloaded to your AppleTV or other devices. Without this feature, the damage is already done and HappyTrucker's scenario of his coworkers taking photos of their private parts and his kids seeing them on his home's AppleTV is unavoidable. Even if he immediately deletes the images from Photo Stream they are already on his AppleTV.
Allright, so I didn't read all the answers to your question, so I don't know if it has already been answered, but I have an answer (or a fix if you will) to your question:
You've taken a bad photo that you want to get rid of, but it's located in your cameraroll - on your photostream on your iphone - on your iphoto library on your computer/mac AND in your photostream on your computer/mac AAND in the photostream on your iCloud...
So you want to get rid of it, here's what you do.
1. Delete the photo from your cameraroll in your iPhone.
2. Turn photostream on and off in your iPhone. (This will delete all the photos in your photostream... but hey, this was a really bad picture...)
3. Go to icloud.com and click on settings -> Advanced -> and reset your photostream (a REALLY bad picture...)
4. Go to your computer settings and turn photostream off, resetting the photostream album on your Mac/PC.
5. Delete the picture from your Events/Pictures album in iPhoto.
Then you can turn photostream back on on every device, and it will continue to upload the pictures you take from now on... which is OK, because now you've learned your lesson...
There seems to be a huge disconnect about what Photostream is and what we want it to be. Formz makes a valid argument that Photostream is just a pipe (only storing 30 days, only showing 1000 photos). However,a lot of us were clearly expecting a presentation tool. Apple marketing should share some of the blame. Moreover, it seems like Apple has missed a huge opportunity. Instead of being "store once, show everywhere" it's now just wireless transfer.
Meh. If I knew that's all Photostream was, I would have saved the $15 on iPhoto '11.
Steeler Dave wrote:
I use Camera Plus from the app store. It is a better way to take photos anyway. Then when I have a photo I like after I edit it, I save to camera roll. That should solve all the problems. Pretty simple and it is a better camera app than the iphone. I think I paid .99 for it. Good luck all
all photo apps that provide shooting pix from inside the app act this way. The pictures are always stored inside the app and only go into the camera-roll or are exported to the web / mail only when you tap the options to do so.
Snapseed,Photoshop Express, Hipstamatic, you name them.. Photoshop Express with 2GB of online storage at photoshop.com btw is free, just the advanced camera features are a 3.99 $ in app purchase. This is also a free alternative of sharing albums with your friends, and they don't have to be Apple or adobe users at all -- hint for those frustrated with the missing "gallery" mode in iCloud.
I don't think Apple created the problem. They built Photo Stream to serve a particular task. People's misconception about what that task is, or what it is should have been, created the problem. I want my pickup truck to fly, but that's not Chevy's problem. If I think trucks should fly, that is a problem inside my head, not with Chevy's engineering. Unfortunately, there is no way for Apple, or Chevrolet, to fix a problem inside of a person's head.
I use Pro HDR and think that it is great! It saves the images to the camera roll, which allows them to sync with other devices using Photo Stream, but it does not give me any more control over Photo Stream than the regular Photos app does. I want the ability to delete individual photos, I understand that it would be a nice "option" not a "necessity", but I sure hope they come out with it soon.
If you are looking for alternate apps for displaying your photos, look at Adobe Carousel. I think it was just released last week.
No. It isn't a "flying pickup truck" idea what is not realistic. Its a normal problem that you have. pix you do not need because they are shaky, privat... You own the rights of the pix and you shuld be able to delete your pix..
Its normal that you pickup truck hase breaks and if a new feature comes like a speed control you shuld be able to break the car normaly without disabel the speed control because its important for your safty an by the iPhone its important for your privacy and its not difficult to make as opposed to your flying truck..
Car = iphone
Feature speed control = photostream
Break = delete pix
Okay, so the flying truck comparison was a bit too far out there. However, you do understand that you do, right now, have the ability to delet pictures from your iPhone. So your request for that ability has already been answered and has been there all along. What people here, including myself, are asking for is an added feature will will give us the ability to delete a single photo from the photo stream, which is beyond what the product was originally designed to do. Maybe a better comparison using your Car = iPhone analogy would be:
Car = iPhone
Cruise Control = Photo Stream
Added feature allowing Cruise Control to be autopilot and have greater control, including steering the car = Added feature allowing Photo Stream to have more greater control, including deleting single pictures.
Cruise control works great for regulating speed, which is what it was designed to do. Photo Stream works great for wirelessly transfering images, which is what it was designed to do.
Ford and Chevy did not make a problem by not including Auto Pilot in their Cruise Control. Apple did not create a problem by not including single image deletion in thier Photo Stream app.
Cruise Control with Auto Pilot would be a really nice and cool feature, and I hope it comes some day soon. Single image deletion from Photo Stream will be a really nice and cool feature, and I hope it comes some day soon.
I think we should continue to give Apple feedback on things to improve the product, but it seems a bit foolish to say something is broken, when what we are really talking about is an added feature, option, luxury or whatever we want to call it. I certainly am not going onto the Ford, Chevy, BMW or other car sites and telling them that their cars are broken or defective because my cruise control lacks the auto pilot or auto-driver feature.
Privacy and transparency - Hmm, I behave like an idiot, someone photographs/blogs/tracks/posts the evidence, and someone I care about it finds out and thinks I'm an idiot.. Maybe the best course of action is to not act like an idiot??
The iPhone and privacy: It tracks you everywhere. If you take photos with it, as they are geotagged and might be automatically synched somewhere you dont expect (unless you dont enable location services and Photostream). Don't browse **** on it either, as the cookiess and history are also synched to icloud (unless you specifically use private mode), and then down to Safari on your Mac.
Basically if you are doing something you dont want anyone to find out about, and you HAVE to have an iDevice, get a seperate device synched to a different iTunes ID.
Otherwise just buy a cheap phone and a microSIM converter to use when you dont want to leak data, and a netbook with an upto date linux distro with full disk encryption using Truecrypt and a double container encrypted disk, keep one OS setup that is clean so when supoenad for the password you can hand over that one. Use the other password for the OS partiton that you REALLY want to hide. Don't mount or attach any disk that isn't also encrypted to it. Use a MyFi or other mobile hotspot if you need to have internet anywhere.
Dont use your credit card or eftpos card for purchases, they can be traced. Cover your face in public places, as store security cameras can also be used to track you. Leave your US passport behind as you government has forced you to carry an RFID chip that can be read from many meters away with a powerful enough reciever.
Leave behind any Access or ID cards that have RFIDs in them.
I think not acting like an idiot might be the easier option?