Q: iPhone 4s, echo when using apple headset during a call

I too have to add my voice to this thread.  I hadn't realised there was a problem until I bought a set of ultimate ears 600vi's this week. They were bought specifically for use when driving so I could lower the headset volume compared to the basic apple headphones as I found I had to turn these up so loud to get over the road noise I got tinnitus!

I immediately noticed that during the phone call I heard my own voice through the headset and also the background road noise.  When the call stopped, the background noise stopped.  This amplified background noise is such that it often drowns out the person on the other end of the call.  I thought it was a faulty headset but then stumbled across this forum.  I have since been experimenting & the problem occurs with both the ultimate ears and the standard apple headset and is reproducible every time.  It does not happen when either headset is plugged into my old 3GS.

I agree with other posters that this only happens in the phone app.  It does not occur when talking to Siri, or making facetime/skype/viber calls (over wifi or 3G). 

The phone app seems to be taking the audio signal from the microphone, feeding it to the network (since the person on the other end can hear you), but then also pumping it back to the headphones.  This is easily proved by rubbing your finger over the microphone during a phone call (you'll hear the scratching in your own earphones) compared to during a facetime/skype/viber call (you won't hear any scratching).  If you have an "in-ear" headset, place one of the earbuds next to the microphone during a call - you'll get the classic high pitched feedback loop in the other earbud (this doesn't work with the stock apple set, presumably because the speaker isn't as good).

Surely this is a software coding glitch if it only happens in the phone app?

It could be argued that this constitutes a health and safety issue as the problem increases the dB levels experienced when using a headset, with the associated detrimental effect on long term hearing.

If you're listening Apple, you need to fix this.

I think people with this issue should list the exact make of headset they are using. I can list over 10 people who own an iPhone 4S, and not every single person is experiencing this issue. I myself had to replace my iPhone 4S due to a muffled earpiece, but I have never experienced this echo you are all discussing.

This should mean that it is possible to either replace the phone and hopefully get one without this issue, or to replace the headset with one that does not have this problem.

In either case if you people, as a collective, do not list the make and model of the earpiece that is experincing this issue, how will you every find the root cause of the problem?

The issue isn't with just the ear piece. I stated in an earlier thread that with my 3G, I was able to connect the output jack of the iPhone into the input jack of my car stereo. I could listen to music, when a call came in, I simply answered it and the audio would go through my car speakers.

This did a few things, it kept me complient with the law having it "hands free" and I didn't have to wear a silly thingy in my ear. When the call ended, my music returned.

SInce getting the iPhone 4S, every caller complains about hearing an echo. The reciever is way too "hot". Probably beefed up so Siri could work better. What I now have to do is set my fader on the car stereo to the rear speakrs. That's at least a good 5' or 6' away from the mic in the iPhone, so far no one has complained about an echo, but it makes the caller hard to hear. Plus not to mention, answering a phone, and chaning stereo parameters while doing 70mph going down the highway.

My simple little setup of the past (3G) no longer is so simple with the 4S. My guess is they will not resolve the issue because it has something to do with having a hot enough signal into the mic so siri will work properly.

Yeah, I do the same thing.  I have a cassette adapter and I plug a monster microphone kit into that.  Worked like a charm with my 3GS and I have to keep the volume down and fade to the rear speakers to avoid the echo.  I have to adjust it as road noise changes and it is very hard for me to hear at times.  The mic can be very hot and I also noticed that I sometimes hear a noise when moving the mic even when I am just listening to music.  Strange and it indicates that something is not quite right with it. 

The mic feedback problem has nothing to do with the brand or model of the headset.  It happens even with the Apple included headset.  I have tried several other headsets that do the same thing.

People who say they don't have this problem either don't understand what the problem is or don't realize that their call quality should be much better than it is.  I've tested over 40 different iphones and they ALL do this.

Just to review, the problem is that ambient noise from your surroundings gets picked up by the mic and gets routed to the headphones thus competing with the sound coming from the other end of the call.  If you have been testing your iphone while in a quiet room, you will not have the problem because there is no ambient noise (except your own voice).  This is why many commentors on this topic mentioned having difficulties hearing while in a car.  The road noise is just too loud.   When I am on a call while in a car, I leave the "mute" button on and unmute every time I want to say something.  The only way to hear what the other person is saying is to mute my side of the call!  I think it is ridiculous that I have to do that in order to have a normal conversation on a device that is supposed to be the most advanced phone ever made.

If you want to test if your phone does this, go somewhere with ambient noise, like a shopping mall, or put on some music in the background, and try making a call with the headset.  Start with the headset in your ears, and as soon as you start the call, you will hear the background noise pop into the headphones.  It will go away as soon as you end the call.  It only happens during a call, not while playing music, or using any other app.

I am having a different problem than you describe uncle PP.  I get complaints of echo on the other end of the conversation.  Only on wired headphones, and with apple as well as other brands.

It may be a different symptom of the same problem.  Not sure.

I would guess this is a product of the same problem.  As Uncle PP says, the mic is routing the audio signal back out to the headset speakers, but only during a phone call.  So the person on the other end of the call will hear an echo of either themselves or you if the speakers (be they earphone speakers, or car stereo speakers) are loud enough for the mic to pick up the noise and feed it back into the loop.

If you've ever heard feedback at a gig, it's the same problem.

Why it does this only in the phone app, and not facetime/skype/viber is anyone's guess.  I don't think it has anything to do with Siri tho as it doesn't occur when asking Siri questions, only during an active phone call, and turning Siri off makes no difference.

Just found this on Uncle PP's other thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidetone

This sounds like what we're experiencing.  Just that the sidetone level is so loud on the 4S as to make noise-cancelling headsets, and car stereo speakers unusable for telephone calls.  Also sounds like this should be a simple software fix.

Out of curiosity, I assume this also happens with Apple's own in-ear buds (not the standard ones)?  Anyone tried them?

Chapmadw your issue has already been solved.

There's been no confirmation of any of these issues being fixed...I'm not sure why some of you are so adamant about this.

Another problem I'm seeing is everyone swears a headset must be involved to get the issues.  If you read through the whole thread, you'll see other people including myself have said they have issues without headsets. 

I frequently can hear myself very prominently with sometimes with an odd artifacting/echo (of myself) during conversations without headphones (not sure if other person on other end can tell).  What I haven't noticed is the person I'm calling complaining about bad echoes without me using a headset. 

Chapmadw, what I should have said is: buy yourself a headset with three buttons on the wire instead of one button. This will solve your issue. Please return to the forum and confirm this fact.

Btw the headset must also be iPhone 4 compliant.

"uncle PP", you must be very unlucky to have picked 40 iPhones in a row with the same "issue" ... I picked ONE and there's nothing wrong with it! (where do you get your hands on 40 unboxed 4s handsets anyway ??)

You suggest that I don't understand the issue or that I'm too ignorant to expect better. I'm able to have an acceptable quality call, while driving, using my standard headphones on a 4s running the latest software. No echo, no excessive feedback, no need to mute. The call quality is no better or worse than other phones I've had, including my 3Gs. My expectations of the noise levels are fine ... not unrealistic.

My only wish is for Apple to add the ability to disable noise cancelling in future so that those who don't like it can turn it off. I also wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the complaints in this thread result from people placing the phone in excessivle noisy locations such as a cluttered compartment or a position where the noise cancelling mic is touching something.

My 4s suffered severrely from the original issue (described in the first post) but this was fixed with the first updated and never occurred again.

Regarding the 1 vs. 3 buttons headset: I have a 1-button Etymotic headset and when I got the iPhone4S and started having the amplified ambient noise that most of you described, I contacted Etymotic to enquire if: 1) they had received similar complaints; 2) if this was specific to the 1-button model. They replied that they had received several 1- and 3-buttons (iPhone 4 compliant) headsets from customers reporting the same problem. None of these headsets had any issues or failed any of their tests. So I'm dubious that buying a 3-button headset will solve anything. My guess is that if you don't have a noise isolating earphone, you may not notice the problem, because you are already hearing all the ambient noise anyway, so some people think their iPhone 4S doesn't have this problem. In fact, my understanding so far is that the new A5 chip in the iPhone 4S comes with a noise cancelling device that, at the moment, can not be turned off, and seems to be responsible for feeding back the microphone sound to the earphone. So, it's a hardware issue in this sense, but maybe they can come up with a way of inactivating the noise cancelling system.

lfmd, I'm not referring to the so called echo or feedback the caller hears on their own phone, I'm referring to the echo the receiver hears.

i have the same problem and actually its happened with using headset and also without headset i always hear my voice !!!

we need an answer from apple please !!