Dual Layer Burning (Mac Mini 1.42) UJ-845C

I looked up the specs elsewhere on the internet and saw the same model drive mentioned in other machines as being a Dual-Layer Drive.

All of the Matshita(Panasonic) UJ-845 models have Dual Layer capability from what I have seen thus far at least on models B, D, E, S. Information about the "C" revision is pretty scarce so far from what I have seen, which is not surprising considering it is an Apple branded product.

However, given that all of the other UJ-845 models that I have looked at suppor Dual-layer burning, and that a UJ-845B "should" be an earlier version than UJ-845C, and that the 845B supports Dual-Layer it would seem logical to conclude that the 845C should also support dual-layer.

For some more evidence (taken from another site)

Model: MATSHITADVD-R UJ-845C
Revision: DPP9
This is the firmware version on my mac mini. (on mine as well)

The updated mac mini has UJ-845C too.. but that is dual layer with the firmware revision D8PB

So, it would also seem that a simple firmware update would enable the Dual-Layer burning unless there was a substantially significant change to the 845 model. A substantial change such as a new feature that was not previously there would typically assume a new model number or at a minimum a different revision (such as D,E,F,etc.). It is however already established that all other 845 models support Dual-Layer burning, so what is the likelyhood that the 845C does not support it? I would say slim to none.

It is a feature that has been turned off in firmware from what I can tell 😟

Here is some more info:

From the Acer Ferrari 4005WLMi specs (notice the drive model #)
Matsushita/ UJ-845C (DVDR(W)/R DL/-R(W)-/-RAM/-CD-R(W): 8-/4-/2,4-/8-/4-/5-/24-/16fach)

Again Notice the model #:
ASUS DUAL DOUBLE LAYER 8X/4X/2,4X/8X/4X/5X/24X/16X W2V (UJ-845C/S)

And one more time:
NBDVD_RW17 Dual Double Layer 8X/4X/2,4X/8X/4X/5X/24X/16X W2V (UJ-845C/S)

So once again we can see that all indications are that the UJ-845C is indeed a dual-layer capable drive. I will see if I can find a way to conclusively test that it is just firmware crippled as I believe it is...

I asked a question about the dual-layer capability on a mailing list that I am on because I thought there may be way to see what the "real" specs are on this drive using a different Operating System. Here is a part of the reply that I got:


<pre>System Profiler. On my Mac mini, one of the lines under "Disc Burning" for the Matshita UJ-845 is:

DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL

The "+R DL" means it can burn DVD+R dual layer. Minis are cool.
</pre>

Could someone from Apple comment on this maybe?
Powerbook G3/500 Mac OS X (10.3.9)

To add yet another post to this thread (and insult to injury)....according to "The Firmware Page"
<PRE>
D or not D in the name of this drive is not that important.
Important is what firmware (OEM) is on the drive.
</PRE>
Which of course means that this drives DL ability (whether it is 845B/C/D/etc.) is crippled in firmware, not because it is incapable of doing DL DVD's.

I am going to send an email off to Panasonic to see if they will clarify the issue even more, however, the logical conclusion is that this drive is indeed DL capable...if that is the case, then those of us with UJ-845C's that are not able to burn DL DVD's need to get Apple/Panasonic to create a firmware updatethat will enable it.

My System Profiler Information does not show "+R DL", yet other peoples systems with the same model drive (but different firmware) DO show the "+R DL" which would be a good indication that the drive is merely firmware crippled to not support "+R DL".

As for evidence, I think that showing that:

a) Other peoples Superdrive model UJ-845C supports "+R DL"

and

b) The same drive (Matshita/Matsushita/Panasonic) OEM'ed to other Manufacturers (Toshiba, etc.) supports "+R DL"

is a definitely excellent indication that this drive is "+R D" capable and that the DL capability has been crippled in firmware. Now the question becomes how to get the "real" drive stats from the drive without reading it straight from firmware or otherwise check the drive in a different manner?

This could be accomplished 2 ways that I can think of right off of the top of my head:

1) Extract the firmware from the same model drive (UJ-845C) with the D8PB firmware and then update that firmware on a UJ-845C that has DPP9 firmware and see if it then supports Dual-Layer burning.

Obviously doing will void any warranty, however if the drive does not support "+R DL", it is not a great loss, as it can be replaced with another model UJ-845 that does support "+R DL"

2) Speak with Panasonic regarding this particular part number and see what they have to say about the capabilities of the drive and whether or not it is a feature that is disabled in firmware

I have sent an email off to them already regarding this and hoping that I will receive a reply soon.

3) Speak with Apple directly regarding this particular UJ-845 model number and see what they have to say about it's dual-layer capability and whether it is turned off in firmware or not.

While I agree that when purchasing a new machine you can only count on the specs that Apple provides as to the functionality of the machine, if indeed the "+R DL" feature is merely turned off in firmware and the drive is indeed capable of supporting this, then that would mean that Apple deliberately turned it off, and the question becomes "why?" The most likely answer would be that they were advertising other more expensive machines that had "+R DL" capability such as the Dual-G5 and the iMac G5, and again we come to the question of "why?"

I have been using Apple machines since way back when..around the time of the Apple ][+ and I love the company, however if this is a firmware disabled feature, then Apple should provide a firmware update to D8PB that would enable the "+R DL" functionality that all specs on the drive that have been found elsewhere on the internet claim it has.

I just got off of the phone with Apple. I discussed this issue at length with the support representative, and in his opinion and after he has searched through the internal documents that us "regular" people do not have access to, he is in agreement with me that since the 845C with firmware version D8PB supports dual-layer burning, that it is indeed merely a firmware update that is needed to enable the Dual-Layer capability of the drive.

Unfortunately, there are no firmware updates available >:/ from Apple (at least publicly or that Apple Support has available internally). This leaves me with needing to talk to someone on the engineering team that will have that firmware update available as well as the firmware patching application 😟 This will be no easy task for sure, however I have some ideas.

It would hoever be nice if Apple would provide this firmware update online...

I do not remember how I first spotted that this drive was "+R DL" capable, however if you do a google search for "UJ-845" you will see that the other brand names that use this same OEM drive all support "+R DL". I wish I coudl remember where I first read it. It was never a big deal to me until now because I didn't have the need to write any "+R DL" discs and I figured that since it was supported that when I eventually did it would not be a problem.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Just got an email back from Panasonic. The General Specification for the drive can be found HERE (This shows model UJ-845B, but they said it is the same).

This is the relevant part of the webpage and then relevant parts of their email below:

<PRE>
Slot-Loading DVD Super-Multi Drive (OEM) for notebook PC's (12.7mm height)

Features
- 5X Speed DVD-RAM Writing
- 8X Speed DVD-R Writing
- 4X Speed DVD-RW Writing
- 24X Speed CD-R Writing
- 16X Speed CD-RW Writing
- 8X Speed +R Writing
- 4X Speed +RW Writing
- 24X Speed CD-ROM Reading
- 8X Speed DVD-ROM Reading
- Buffer Under Run Protection
- +R Dual Layer Writing
</PRE>

These are intergration products for laptops, which means the firmware
will vary between laptop manufacturers and models according to the what
the manufacturer requires and for compatability. Sometimes the drives
can differ physically, but this is usually just the head for DVD-RAM
function.
We do not carry information on specific firmware as this end of support
is left with the laptop manufacturer due to the sheer number of
variations required.

This of course means that this drive does support dual-layer burning as long as we have the correct firmware installed. Additionally, since some of the UJ-845C's in the Mac Mini's are capable of "+R DL" that would mean again that with a firmware update to D8PB (I believe that is correct from my earlier post) that ALL of the 845C's should burn "+R DL"

--Rais

Actually Doug, the problem was very clearly stated in the very first post. Additionally, you do not know who I am nor do you know my qualifications, so I will give you a litte idea about the man behind the nick 🙂

17+ years experience with Apple products starting with the Apple ][ series of computers 🙂 I have 17 different vendor certifications for various hardware and Operating systems including Microsoft, Sun, SGI, Cisco, Apple (at one time) and various others. I have done Network administration for the united states military as well as corporations such as American Express and Morgan Stanley.

The question that I asked here was VERY specific " Anyone know if there is a firmware update for this that will enable the Dual-layer burning?". Obviously I was not able to find one using the regular sources, and I loathe calling regular Apple support, so I decided I would check here first.

If indeed it is the case that machines that have this drive with firmware revisiojn DPP9 are DL Crippled in the firmware and not hardware, which seems to be supported by both the Apple Service Tech and Panasonic, then indeed Apple should make this update available to users who wish to have that capability on a drive that from the information obtained from both Apple and Panasonic, clearly supports "+R DL" at the hardware level.

Now with that said, I am not an Apple Engineer, nor am I a programmer per se, however I do know that historically when Apple has made hardware changes they have not just added functionality without some statement regarding that functionality.

Now as for this being for "technical support issues only", I would say that this is definitely a technical support issue, and the Apple Service Technician I spoke to concurred that it was indeed a technical support issue and something that I should maybe ask about here.

As for no evidence of a technical problem, are you serious? I would call it a definite technical problem when a piece of hardware (in this case the UJ-845C) is not performing all of the functions it was designed to perform. Whether that problem is related to the hardware or related to separate software issue (in this case the version of the firmware) doesn't matter. In this case referring to both Panasonic and Apple's own technical support staff indicate that it is a firmware problem as to why the "+R DL" functionality is not working as the drive was designed.