Shawn Cox

Q: end of the road for my Color Classic???

Greetings. Lifelong Mac user here who, in the wake of Jobs’ passing, retrieved my Color Classic from the attic, thinking it would surely boot right up. It worked as recently as maybe 4-5 years ago, but all attempts over the past month to successfully boot it up have been in vain. After one purchase from Radio Shack and three from eBay, I’m 99 percent done throwing any more money at it. But I’d like to see if any of you could maybe help me out before I give up the ghost. I don’t have long, since I’ll need to return the internal HD I just bought off eBay soon if I want a refund. Here’s the rundown:

 

** Initially, it would boot up without the startup chime, show a grey screen for a minute or two (no icons at all), then give the eight-tone chimes of death.

 

** Buying a new PRAM battery led to it giving the startup chime and showing the smiling Mac, but that would give way to the flashing question mark over the floppy icon. I tried resetting PRAM, which did lead to the three successive startup chimes, but still got the question mark afterward.

 

** Next thing I did was buy a complete set of 7.1 discs off eBay. Using either the Disk Tools disc or the Install Me First disc, I would get the startup chime and smiling Mac, but then I couldn’t get past this message: “This startup disk will not work with this Macintosh. Use the latest installer to update this disk for this model.” For some reason, the mouse wouldn’t work when doing this, so I’d have to power off with the main switch and then eject the floppy with a paper clip. I would later learn that these discs apparently wouldn’t work on the CC because of a missing System Enabler.

 

** Next step: buying 7.6 Disk Tools discs off eBay. This time, the startup chime and happy Mac gave way to a sad Mac icon, a "0000000F / 00000066" error message and four-tone chimes of death. That led me to believe my factory HD was bad, sooooo …

 

** I bought an internal HD off eBay with 7.5 already installed on it. I had high hopes that this would finally do the trick. The heavens would open up and I would see the desktop. But ... after the swap, I was greeted once again with the flashing question mark. I disconnected and reattached the data and power cables to the HD three times, but to no avail. I tried booting off the 7.6 Disk Tools with this new HD, but got the sad Mac / "0000000F / 00000066" sequence once more. I tried booting off the 7.6 Disk Tools with no HD attached and got the same thing. This was the most depressing night of all.

 

** Today, with the new HD installed, I tried booting off of old 7.0.1 and 7.1 startup floppies my dad made back in the day -- and one or both of them actually progresses past the smiling Mac to the "Welcome to Macintosh" screen. But then, the "use the latest installer" screen takes over.

 

So this is where things stand. I'm holding out hope that I can having a working CC without spending any more money, but I'm not optimistic. Tonight I might trying washing the logic board in the dishwasher, as well as booting with the logic board disconnected and then pushing it in shortly after the startup chime (which I had tried with the factory HD without success).

 

Any thoughts? Ideas? Or should I call it a day, put it back on the side mantle in my living room, and go the Macquarium (or MacAntFarm) route down the road? Thanks in advance for your help!

Posted on Nov 3, 2011 5:26 PM

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Q: end of the road for my Color Classic???

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  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 3, 2011 9:38 PM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 3, 2011 9:38 PM in response to Shawn Cox

    Forgot to mention that when I try to boot off the new internal HD that I got off eBay, it briefly makes knocking sounds, capped by a "rat-a-tat-tat-tat" noise that lasts a second or two, before the flashing question mark appears. For whatever that's worth.

  • by Ashka,Helpful

    Ashka Ashka Nov 3, 2011 9:42 PM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 4 (3,866 points)
    Notebooks
    Nov 3, 2011 9:42 PM in response to Shawn Cox

    Another place to try for info:

    http://lowendmac.com/

    Best.

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 3, 2011 9:49 PM in response to Ashka
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 3, 2011 9:49 PM in response to Ashka

    Awesome. Thank you!

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 4, 2011 12:31 AM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 4, 2011 12:31 AM in response to Shawn Cox

    Also also, the "new" internal HD with pre-installed 7.5 that I bought turned out to be a 700MB NEC model from 1995. Would that inherently cause any problems with a May 1993 Color Classic that most likely had been running on the latest OS available on the factory HD?

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 4, 2011 1:20 PM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 4, 2011 1:20 PM in response to Shawn Cox

    Here’s a 40-second video I took when I thought I was it about to finally start up; you can hear the HD “rat-a-tat-tat-tat” noise that I was talking about shortly after the chime:

     

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3434609/IMG_0484.MOV

  • by Appaloosa mac man,Helpful

    Appaloosa mac man Appaloosa mac man Nov 5, 2011 1:27 PM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 5 (4,330 points)
    Nov 5, 2011 1:27 PM in response to Shawn Cox

    Shawn,

     

    What large city are you near?  We need to find you a user group to save you the expense of false starts.

     

    The number one resource that we would recommend is to use the external SCSI port.  That allows you to boot from one drive and take a look at the internal drive without the trouble of changing out the internal drive.

     

    With the obligatory safety warning in mind, opening up the case, checking components, reseating RAM chips, etc. is the next place to go with your adventures.  Some one in a user group should have the old time resources available to get you going again.

     

    Jim

  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Nov 6, 2011 4:59 AM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Nov 6, 2011 4:59 AM in response to Shawn Cox

    The Color Classic is pretty straight forward to work on because the motherboard is just a matter of pulling it out.

     

    But I don't think it's a bad motherboard so that is the good news. Sounds like the original hard drive died but before you toss it try seeing if it is just a matter of the heads being stuck. Take it in hand and gently swish it back and forth a few times to see if it that will unstick the heads. If you had a clean room I would say open the drive and gently turn the platters than zip it back up and see if it will work.

     

    The "new' hard drive you bought sounds like it is pooched as those clicking sounds are usually an indication of a bad drive so return it ASAP for a working one or a refund. But just in case if you look at your old hard drive does it have terminators on it, they will look like two long black strips with multiple prongs attaching them to the motherboard of the hard drive. Now look at the new one, does it have any or a place for them? Though my memory is foggy on SCSI drives but that 700 might have a jumper instead but that could be wrong.

     

    In terms of the OS, you can run System 8 on it. But you must buy the Apple release version for all Macs which comes with a floppy disk to boot your CC as well as a CD with the system SW on it. The CD is white but you will need a SCSI CD drive to install the sw. The error messages tell me that those disks are the wrong ones and not something wrong with your CC.

     

    Now if you were into experimenting..... the following motherboards from other compact Macs will work in your CC.

     

    The motherboard from the LC 525 is a straight swap in and even the ports on the board mate up with the holes on the rear cover. The LC 550 as well, which was actually the motherboard that the CC II used.

     

    The motherboard from the LC 575 will also work and that adds a 68040 cpu into the mix plus the upgrade to 72 pin simms which allows you to add up to 128mb of ram with a modification to the case of the CC. The two other boards I mentioned also take 72 pin simms so you can bump up your CC from 10mb to 32mb.

     

    I wrote a short page on my experiments here, http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/colorclassic/index.html .

     

    In any event I think it's just your hard drive that is the problem since your video sounds good, don't toss that CC as there are still collectors out there looking for them.

     

    On other thought, since the hard drive is on a caddy with a zif socket it's possible that some of the pins have a bit of corrosion on them. Check the one's on the hard drive side and see if they look clean, if not clean them. on the computer side that will be tougher since it's deep in the case but a few insertions of the drive might be enough to knock some of the corrosion off and make a better contact.

  • by Denis Eddy,

    Denis Eddy Denis Eddy Nov 10, 2011 4:40 PM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 4 (3,540 points)
    Nov 10, 2011 4:40 PM in response to Shawn Cox

    Two superb and unexcelled sources of information about rescuing, reviving, repairing, upgrading and whatever of Colo(u)r Classic/Performa 250  Macs are at:

     

    http://www.applefritter.com/forum/101

     

    http://68kmla.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=ce43b2dc66656c06cb83081b2942e2c7

     

    The Applefritter forum devoted exclusively to these models has been inactive for some time, but the information lives on.

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 22, 2011 10:51 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 22, 2011 10:51 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

    Hi Jim — I'm in Richmond, VA. Is there a user group closer than D.C./Northern Virginia? Thanks for the help!

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 22, 2011 10:57 PM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 22, 2011 10:57 PM in response to Niteshooter

    Hey Niteshooter, thanks so much for all the advice! I did indeed return the HD I got off eBay (after trying out what you suggested with my factory drive, to no avail) and am now awaiting a replacement drive. Fingers crossed! I'll let you all know how it goes.

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Nov 22, 2011 10:58 PM in response to Denis Eddy
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 22, 2011 10:58 PM in response to Denis Eddy

    Thank you, Denis! Really appreciate the links.

  • by Douglas Stierman,

    Douglas Stierman Douglas Stierman Dec 21, 2011 12:10 AM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 21, 2011 12:10 AM in response to Shawn Cox

    Hi Shawn,

     

         Contrary to what was said above, you cannot install OS8 onto a stock Color Classic, nor would you ever want to with only 10MB max RAM. I would stick with System 7.1, but you will need the proper enabler which is System enabler 401. You can get that here: http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html

     

    Did your System 7.1 disks come with a Disk Tools Disk? The only difference between the actual 7.1 install disks that shipped with the CC are the Disk Tools disk and the Color Classic Install Me First Disk. The other disks are the exact same as the 7.1 disks you have. You can Convert a generic System 7.1 Disk Tools into a COlor Classic Disk Tools Disk by placing the System Enabler 401 into the System folder of the generic Disk Tools Disk. You can do this with a modern Mac and a USB Floppy drive, provided the disks are all HD disks (If you have five system 7.1 disks labeled - Install, Install second(I forget the exact name), Tidbits, Printing, and Fonts, then you have the HD set. The 800K 7.1 install disks are pretty uncommon anyway. I have tricked a color classic into getting by without the Color Classic Install Me First disk, but putting the 401 enabler onto the generic Install First (Or Install 1, or just Install, I forget offhand), and performing an install "For Any Macintosh System", and not a model specific install. After that install is done, reboot from the disk tools disk and again, put the 401 enabler into the Hard Drive's freshly installed System Folder. Then you should be able to boot from the CC Hard drive. You will end up possibly with some control panels and extensions that cannot be used, but the CC ROM is smart enough to know which extensions to load and which control panels to not allow to run, so you'll be fine. In Mine and many other's humble opinion, System 7.1 is as high a you want to go on a stock 16MHz Color Classic unless you like the mushy feel of a sluggish computer Really, the CC is screaming for a compatible version of 6.0.8 to make using it (now or even back in the day) more bearable. Hope this helps!

  • by Douglas Stierman,

    Douglas Stierman Douglas Stierman Dec 21, 2011 12:17 AM in response to Shawn Cox
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 21, 2011 12:17 AM in response to Shawn Cox

    One more thing...

     

    The clatter you heard when powering up that hard drive is somewhat normal for many different makes and models of drives as they power up. They usually do some sort of track seeking which can generate a noise. It's usually only at startup and has a distinct pattern as opposed to a hard drive that is about to die which makes clattering noises randomly and long after powerup. Some drives are noisier than others, and for some, the track seek powerup is barely audible above the system fan. However, I would stick with a 40 or 80 MB Quantum drive as they are the vintage of your CC. Some of the later 160MB, 230MB, and 320MB, Quantum, Seagate, and IBM drives should also have no problem being seen and formatted by the System 7.1 drive formatter. Hope this is helpful!

  • by Shawn Cox,

    Shawn Cox Shawn Cox Dec 22, 2011 12:40 AM in response to Douglas Stierman
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 22, 2011 12:40 AM in response to Douglas Stierman

    Thanks so much, Douglas — your input is extremely helpful! Merry Christmas!

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