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iTunes Match vs. Play Counts

Hello everyone - I need some help.


I signed up for Match last night, and it matched/uploaded just about all of my music. I've been messing with it today trying to figure out how it works, and ran into an error that I can't figure out - play counts.


I downloaded a new album (CAMP by Childish Gambino, if you're wondering), imported it into iTunes, uploaded it to iCloud/Match, and it was listed as "Matched." The album showed up on my iPhone and my iPad. Perfect!


I listened to it a few times on my phone, rated a few songs, etc, then opened up iTunes to see what it did. It pulled down the ratings from the cloud, but not the play counts. I plugged my phone in and synced (wifi sync wasn't connecting due to an unknown error) in hopes that an itunes sync would pull the play counts down, but no luck...


Anyone else tried this or have a similar experience? I have a few playlists built around play counts and would really like to have my play counts updated. Thanks!

Mac OS X (10.7.2)

Posted on Nov 15, 2011 11:10 AM

Reply
474 replies

Sep 17, 2013 9:14 AM in response to crankerchick

This will be long, but I know some people who followed in the past really want to understand how this works. So here goes.


So far my iPhone seems to be working flawlessly. I haven't noticed any issues with syncing. It does delay the syncing, as discussed before, so basically it looks like a 12 hours still has to pass between playing songs to trigger an update to the cloud. I haven't lost a single song from my iPhone though since I started using. I did lose some songs from my iPad but I can't say for sure yet that was the service messing up or not. I got impatient and tired of waiting for the artwork to load on my iPad so I turned Match off and back on for it to load again. The artwork came in but it looks like with the exception of 4 song plays, it lost the rest. The rest were duplicate song plays, as in I played an album from track 8 to the end, and then it repeated the album almost in whole. It got the track 8 to the end, and lost the repeat play of the album. I plan to test in the next few days if repeating the album may have caused the problem, but honestly my guess is more because I turned match off, but I don't know for sure.


Some interesting things happen on the device. I have a 'Recently Played' smart playlist. I can play music on my device, and that playlist doesn't update, except sometimes it does. It makes me worry that something is awry because I've seen in the past attempts with match where this list would actually show song plays and then later delete them and they would never show up in the cloud as played. Right now I've played music today from this device. I also played music last night from my MacBook Pro. My 'Recently Played' list on my iPhone shows none of these plays in the list. It also doesn't show any of the songs I played from my MacBook Pro last night. It shows the last song I played yesterday from this device. Keep in mind the first song I played today DID trigger an update to the cloud for the device and I can see all the songs I played yesterday from this iPhone when I look at iTunes from non-iOS device. So, my "cloud" library as visible from non-iOS devices is completely accurate up to the first song I started playing today from iPhone but my iPhone is accurate only to the last song it synced to the cloud (so the last song I listened to yesterday, which was before I listened to anything from my MBP). So to summarize, my 'Recently Played' list as of right now on iPhone shows all of my play history for my entire library up until the last song it synced to the cloud for the device, which was the last song I played yesterday. Hence it doesn't show in the list song plays from my MBP last night, or any of the songs I played from the device today. I saw this same behavior yesterday. Songs played since the last sync with cloud did not show up in the list.


Another layer: I use CloudScrob to scrobble to Last.FM. This will scrobble any songs it finds in the library that have been played since the last time it scrobbled. I scrobbled my iPhone last night BEFORE I started listening to any music on my MBP. It scrobbled everything from yesterday, so even though the 'Recently Played' playlist on the iPhone didn't show all of my plays and these songs hadn't of course synced to iTunes Match yet (need 12 hours to elaps), they were there waiting to be sent to iTunesMatch and CloudScrob saw them and wrote them. Subsequently, this morning, before I started playing any music, but after having launched the music app on the iphone to see what the 'Recently Played' playlist looked like (it was unchanged from yesterday--still showing the last song I played from the device the day before), I opened CloudScrob to see if it would see the songs I played from my MBP last night (so I could tell if a sync from the cloud had taken place). Even though they didn't show in my 'recently played' list, they were there on the device and I could scrobble them (or not since I already scrobbled them while I was listening to them from the MBP).


So to summarize further, it looks like:

1. Songs played from a non-iOS device always update instantly, which we knew. If you listen to a song from iTunes on a PC, then update match on another PC, the song shows as played. This also looks like it pushes to iOS devices. The iOS device may not show in an smart playlist that it was played, but the device sees it under the hood so to speak.


2. Songs played from an iOS device seem to update after 12 hours has passed and another song play triggers the update. I plan to test if you have to play another song to trigger the update, or just launch the music app, or if it will just happen on it's own after 12 hours. It looks like you have to start playing a song, but I want to test. It would be a bummer to ahve to play a song to cause an update, and even more bummer if you go days before you play another song and your previous plays are lost.


3. Smart Playlists are finicky. At one point I thought they were local to the device, and would always update locally, and then update again after a cloud sync. So as you listen to and/or rate songs, smart lists will update locally, but they won't show updates from other devices until a cloud sync. That doesn't seem to be the case, at least not for all of my playlists. When I rate a song, they disappear from my "not rated" list immediately. This is regardless of what device does the rating. Looks like, as we suspected before, ratings are definitely instantaneous even to iOS devices. However, when I play a song, they don't disappear from my not recently played list, nor do they appear in my recently played list on that local device.


4. An event that triggers the iOS device to send its updates to the cloud library and pull any new plays from the library does happen, but playlists may not update accordingly. They may update "behind the scenes''--need to figure out how to test, but they don't update as visually observable by looking at a smart playlist. My iPhone is aware of the plays from my MBP last night, but they don't show in the 'Recently Played' list on my phone yet, even though they show in it in iTunes from a PC. Eventually the list on my iPhone will actually get in sync (as displayed to me) with cloud, as in what is internally visible on the device will actually show externally on the list I can see.


It's all quite weird but the takeaway is, my iTunes cloud library, as visible from Windows/Mac PCs is always as accurate as the last sync from iOS devices, plus all track plays from any other Windows/Mac PCs as they occur. Your iOS device may not show you externally the correct library. It may be correct as of the last time it synced to the cloud. Some local happenings may externally be visible (like ratings), but playcounts or last played definitely not so much. It does seem to be aware of the changes, and syncs them back to the cloud, and it may actually update the playlists internally, but not reflect that to you externally, or vice versa. I rate songs on the device, and they disappear from the 'not rated' playlist, but they are actually still in it, and when I trip to skip songs, it gets all screwy and plays songs that are no longer visually in the list anymore because I just rated them!


I think the service for the most part is "working" in the sense that eventually everybody gets in sync, but the iOS devices still have some quirky behavior that isn't quite "broken" so much as just doesn't necessarily make sense why it behaves that way. I have yet to have it not update properly, it's just the state your phone may be in while waiting for an update may not make sense to you with regards to smart playlists. I have no idea if they are updated internally and just not displaying the right thing to me in the list, or if they aren't even genuinely updated even though the play data is available on the device.


I don't know why Apple couldn't just have made this something that happens instantly. I just don't understand how what they happen can't be any less complicated than instantaneous updating.


Lastly, aside from syncing, I do see more actual play issues with the service. I never in the past actually had problems playing music, just problems with playcount and last played updating. I've had playback problems this go, from songs playing a few seconds in and restarting repeatedly when they hit that some spot (had this more than once), songs just stopping playing and the app crashing to the homescreen, and songs just stopping in the middle and skipping ahead to the next song (I've experienced this on other streaming services too).


Also, I believe they've stopped it from "timing out" so to speak and making you start a song from the beginning if it has been paused for some unknown amount of time. It seems to remember the play location now.


Don't know if any of this makes a different if you're using iOS 7 or not. I can't see why it would.

Sep 17, 2013 11:03 AM in response to crankerchick

I believe there is a bug in iOS related to "last played" playlists in general and not related to iTunes match. From my testing it appears that when the music app is first open it sets the current time as the time it uses for those smart playlists and then never updates it. Shutting down the music app does not cause the playlists to update, but restarting the phone does (sometimes). I submitted a bug and it got marked as a duplicate so they apparently know about it so it should be fixed in a few years or made obsolete by some other major change (the normal timeline I've seen for bugs I've submitted in the past).


iTunes uses the correct time, so the songs get synced to the iPhone, they just don't show up in the smart playlists until some voodoo causes it to update the time it uses for its comparisons.

Sep 17, 2013 11:03 AM in response to kimcha

Yeah it doesn't work for me. Well, it works. And then as soon as iTunes Match update occurs, it overwrites everything with the wrong playcounts from the cloud again.


Duplicate playcount issue is no more for me, thankfully.

kimcha wrote:


All this is now working fine for me. Thank you again. Have you seen this for "repairing play counts" until it is really fixed by Apple?


http://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=addorsubtractplaycount

Sep 17, 2013 11:27 AM in response to Steve Martin7

Good catch. I've never paid that close attention before, because I've never had to. Smart playlists just always worked for my uses. They always seemed to update right on my device in semi-realtime without me having to sync back to the PC, like every other music player on the planet that wasn't an Android device with a third party music player on both my device and my PC that couldn't communicate with iTunes. I was so excited to be able to have iTunes Match and finally be able to have all of music with me at one time AND have the feature that won't leave me leave the iPod/iPhone and iTunes as a music player. As long as playcounts and last played syncing didn't/don't work in Match, it's useless to me. I can use any other free service as a locker for my music, but only Apple's music player and iTunes accomplishes smart playlists that updated right on the device. It always worked fine for me until iTunes Match. I'm hopeful that what I've experienced the last few days means the service is at least as functional as I've seen it be. I can live with the quirks I'm seeing as long as the syncing does indeed work, albeit slowly. It's very frustrating that Apple lets certain things keep making it through the cracks for years. Today I just wanted to add the currently playing song to a playlist quickly. Why, in the history of iPods, specifically iOS devices, this hasn't been added baffles me. People have been submitting requests for this since the dawn of the iPod. I should not have to leave the now playing screen to do this. Every other music player not named iSomething has software that allows this.

Steve Martin7 wrote:


I believe there is a bug in iOS related to "last played" playlists in general and not related to iTunes match. From my testing it appears that when the music app is first open it sets the current time as the time it uses for those smart playlists and then never updates it. Shutting down the music app does not cause the playlists to update, but restarting the phone does (sometimes). I submitted a bug and it got marked as a duplicate so they apparently know about it so it should be fixed in a few years or made obsolete by some other major change (the normal timeline I've seen for bugs I've submitted in the past).


iTunes uses the correct time, so the songs get synced to the iPhone, they just don't show up in the smart playlists until some voodoo causes it to update the time it uses for its comparisons.

Sep 17, 2013 1:26 PM in response to crankerchick

So even more data points. I previously said that my iPhone did trigger an update to the cloud when I started playing songs today and that the "Recently Played" smart playlist still showed the last song I played yesterday as the last played song and didn't show any of the changes to my library from listening to music on MBP last night, even though the app seemed aware of those changes to the library. Also, the "Recently Played" smart playlist was not updating as songs played on my iPhone today, but the library was clearly being modified "internally" just not visually to me in my list. Well I just had an instance where the app just stopped playing music and crashed. My phone seemed locked up, but the home button worked to go back to the homescreen. Relaunch Music app and it's still locked up on a blank white screen with the elements of the app there, but no text filled in. Swipe closed the app and relaunched, and now the Recently Added playlist is visually updated and showing in the list what the device was already internally aware of. It's also updating after every song play (all lists related to Last Played are updating).


It looks like after sync with iTunes Match, some things get screwed up and the list isn't being displayed properly even though the data is on the device. A swipe close of the app and relaunch seems to bring it out of the jacked up state and things work as they should, with lists not just updating in the database, but the elements also being showed visually on screen within the app.


Will verify this again tomorrow.

Sep 21, 2013 11:27 AM in response to crankerchick

With iTunes 11.1 (126) and iOS 7.0, the issue where playing a song on your iOS device with iTunes Match enabled would always cause your Plays count on your Mac to increment by 2 is finally resolved! I can now use iTunes Match again. 🙂


The metadata still does not update immediately (and Apple has stated that is expected behavior - can take up to 24 hours to update), but it is now correct.

I played a song on my iPhone last night that had 38 plays and last played date was 6/24/13. It did not update when I checked on the Mac about an hour later.

I checked the Mac this morning and it has updated to 39 plays with last played 9/20/13.

Sep 22, 2013 8:32 AM in response to crankerchick

Mine is now working properly, everything has synced since IOS 7 and play count increments are 1, I still get a delay (probably 24hrs) if I've played stuff outside of my wi-fi network but that's ok.


My only question is I'm trying to reset my play counts as they are so corrupt from the previous issues, unfotunately every time i rest them all and I-tunes Match updates on my computer the old play counts come back, does anyone know how to do a hard reset?

Sep 24, 2013 8:52 AM in response to alecp763

I'll just reply to all of my previous long posts to update that all is working well for me. I dislike that there is the update delay of a 12 hour lapse between updates on iOS devices, and I've confirmed that you do have to play a song from the iOS device to completion to trigger an update, which I also dislike. I haven't seen an update happen without doing this. However, given these caveats, I have yet to lose any song plays and my play counts and last played have updated appropriately. I've tested from all of my iOS devices (iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch), my 2 laptops (1 OS X with Mountain Lion, 1 Windows 7) and "main" desktop (Windows 7). I have experienced the updates from my desktop/laptops to be "instantaneous" only in the sense that there is no 12 hour delay. However, sometimes I do have to do the "Update iTunes Match" function if I want to force an update of what I've listened to if I don't want to wait for it to happen automatically at some point.


I've decided to leave Match on finally, as I'm convinced I understand how it is working and feel confident it is working reliably for updating play count and last played. Also, if your device has done an update (just play a song to completion after 12 hour lapse and watch the status bar, you'll see the indicator that something is happening) but your playlist fail to show you visually that they are updated with whatever information was synced, or if your playlists fail to show you they are updating after you continue to play music, odds are the information is being updated on the device, you just need to fully close and restart the music app and the playlists will reflect the changes and also update properly. This hasn't always happened to me, but when it does, that seems to be what has happened--the music app has just wigged out on what it's showing on screen, but the database is still logging properly.

Sep 24, 2013 9:06 AM in response to DMaz481

It might be possible. Are you backing up your iTunes folder? If so, you may be able to revert to an earlier library. Even if you're not, iTunes does create backups automatically. Check your Previous iTunes Library folder. You need to restore an older .ilt file (check its date!), as that contains your metadata. Replace the current one in the main iTunes folder with your backup. Do so while iTunes is quit. Any other metadata changes you made since that file was created will be deleted.

iTunes Match vs. Play Counts

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